Evolzar Soldde

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Story

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<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/772b1ed48b65ec8740f90af8f749caecb2643bc6e81cdf3c547194d51d14c5b86g.jpg width=540>

Evoldar Laggia attack facedown tengu.... while evolzar soldee also on field..

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Question

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1. Can Evolzar Soldee negate these :
- Reborn Tengu
- Skyscrapper 2
- Miralce Fusion ?

2. How this situation resolve,.... what can I special summon under these condition ?

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This situation quite giving us trouble... since both side are unsure, but I say since Soldee act Like ThunderKing... and Laggia act like S.warning.... so I think SOldde cann't negate any specials summons by other card effect.... (unless I specialing BLS... but at that moment, I don't have any dark monster)

So... opp att reborn tengu, I can special summon tengu... unless opp use Laggia ?

1.
-No, See Thunder King/Black Horn of Heaven
-No, See Thunder King/Black Horn of Heaven
-No, See Thunder King/Black Horn of Heaven

2.
Too tired for building a chain, see someone whose time zone doesn't say it's 3am right now.

1st of all, Soldde doesn't negate the summon.
I don't know if Soldde can activate in Damage Step or not, but Soldde response to succesful summon so I think it can't.
And as I said, Soldde response to successful summon, so monsters came out from Skyscrapers 2 and Miracle Fusion can be destroyed by Soldde.

Evolzar Soldde does NOT negate!
It only destroys the summoned monster aka Bottomless traphole.

So to question 1: No he can't "negate" them. He can however destroy the summoned monsters.

Number 2 is answered by this: Yes, you can special Tengu. Yes, you can summon another. Yes, he can destroy that again.
Correction. It might not work in the Damage step

Ah... I got confused with Evolzar Laggia... (he also was on the field too)

Then It means I was cheated my opp said he cann't negate with soldde because it act like TKRO.... didn't have thought if it act like trap hole

<img src=http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DrTanner/chan/facepalm.jpg width=140>

Oh crap. That's my mistake. I remember seeing negate in it texts somewhere down the line. Was that mistranslated? I seriously remember reading the English part somewhere worded negate.

Well, either way, I failed society. Shutting up now.

That's what I said.
And Laggia works like Solemn Judgment, not Solemn Warning. Soldde works like a Trap Hole for Special Summon that has no ATK limit.
As I said, I don't know if Soldde can activate in Damage Step or not, so I'm not sure about Soldde can destroy the new Tengu that was summoned during Damage Step or not.

BlackwingRa wrote:That's what I said.
And Laggia works like Solemn Judgment, not Solemn Warning. Soldde works like a Trap Hole for Special Summon that has no ATK limit.
As I said, I don't know if Soldde can activate in Damage Step or not, so I'm not sure about Soldde can destroy the new Tengu that was summoned during Damage Step or not.

I could not find that either so I gues we'll have to wait for guys like Key or Dest on that part.

post 500!

Yeah, we'll have to wait, but since Soldde is not officially out yet, we follow the rulings of Bottomless Trap Hole: cannot activate during Damage Step.

you shouldn't be able to activate Soldde in the damage step, for the stated reason, it does not negate anything nor does it have another criteria for the damage step...

If summoned outside of the damage step you are able to destroy the ssed monster as long as it isn't summoned in the middle of a chain.

Only trigger effects that can activate in damage step are mandatory effects or monsters whose effects would trigger after destroying/being destroyed by battle. Evolzar Soldde works exactly like BTH, both have the same activation timing.

Now I suggest to everyone to reads this it will help them solve many problems in the future....

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Breakdown_of_the_Battle_Phase

Badass_Bunny wrote:Only trigger effects that can activate in damage step are mandatory ones.

I'm pretty sure that's false, Mystic Tomato, and other recruiters can activate in the damage step.

Key wrote:

Badass_Bunny wrote:Only trigger effects that can activate in damage step are mandatory ones.

I'm pretty sure that's false, Mystic Tomato, and other recruiters can activate in the damage step.

Yes that is wrong on so many levels, I completely forgot about recruiters and Shura-like cards.

Soldde does NOT negate any summon.
Soldde CAN destroy a monster summoned by Miracle Fusion, Skyscraper 2, Polymerization, Fusion Gate, Super Polymerization, Parallel World Fusion, Monster Reborn, etc.
Soldde CAN destroy a Tengu summoned by it's own effect, as long as it isn't damage step.
Soldde CANNOT destroy monsters summoned in the damage step.

This card should be compared to Bottomless Trap Hole, a lot of it's rulings will be the same as Bottomless Trap Hole.

I don't see why it can't destroy the monster in the damage step
It is a trigger effect.

In the damage step only the following cards can be activated:
- Counter Traps.
- Cards that alter ATK/DEF.
- Mandatory trigger effects.
- FLIP effects.
- Quick effect monster cards that negate the ACTIVATION of other card effects.
- Any card that specifies it can be activated in the damage step.
- Cards that have a BKKS ruling.

Soldde isn't any of these. It doesn't negate the activation of other card effects either. It can be compared to Bottomless Trap Hole, Bottomless Trap Hole cannot be activated when Shining Angel summons a monster with 1.5K.

3E-hero neos wrote:In the damage step only the following cards can be activated:

- Mandatory trigger effects.

/)_-

3E-hero neos wrote:Soldde isn't any of these. It doesn't negate the activation of other card effects either. It can be compared to Bottomless Trap Hole, Bottomless Trap Hole cannot be activated when Shining Angel summons a monster with 1.5K.

The only reason they cannot be activated in the damage step is that they're only a spell speed 2 that doesn't alter atk/def, and doesn't specifically said they can be activated then.

The rules of the damage steps are ...

Counter Trap Cards (e.g. Seven Tools of the Bandit)
Spell Speed 2 Effects that alter the ATK/DEF of monsters (e.g. Rush Recklessly)
Effects that specify activation timings within the Damage Step (e.g. Nutrient Z)
Quick Effect (Multi-Trigger) Monster Effects that negate (and only negate) the activation of a card/effect
"Attack and Receive", "Chthonian Blast", "Desrook Archfiend", "Michizure", "Null and Void", and "Numinous Healer"

It mentions no where about trigger effect because by definition of trigger effect ...

Trigger Monster Effects activate whenever a certain condition on the Field, the nature of play, or the progress of the turn, is met.

So you're basically saying that you'd be able to activate BTH following that logic, in the damage step?

Bottomless Trap Hole is restricted in the damage step rules

Key wrote:I don't see why it can't destroy the monster in the damage step
It is a trigger effect.

It might be just me but

Wikia wrote:Cards that can be activated at Damage Step:
Counter Trap Cards (e.g. Seven Tools of the Bandit)
Spell Speed 2 Effects that alter the ATK/DEF of monsters (e.g. Rush Recklessly)
Effects that specify activation timings within the Damage Step (e.g. Nutrient Z)
Quick Effect (Multi-Trigger) Monster Effects that negate (and only negate) the activation of a card/effect
"Attack and Receive", "Chthonian Blast", "Desrook Archfiend", "Michizure", "Null and Void", and "Numinous Healer"

Now lets look at Soldde,

It's spell speed 1 effect, that doesn't alter the ATK/DEF, and isn't a BKKS.

If Green Baboon Defender Of The Forest can't activate in Damage step I really don't understand how this could activate in damage step. Not claiming I'm 100% Correct here but I really don't see how am I wrong.

Soldde isn't a BKSS yet because ... it isn't out yet. Why can't we use BTH rulings for Soldde until its official rulings is out?

BlackwingRa wrote:Soldde isn't a BKSS yet because ... it isn't out yet. Why can't we use BTH rulings for Soldde until its official rulings is out?

Which is going to take some time since we don't even have official rulings for Generation Force. Now if we get Generation Force rulings than following the ruling of "Absolute Crusader" we would be able to figure out how does Soldde act.

We haven't got the rulings for GENF yet? That's strange :-s

really?

so this must mean the rulings translations at duelingdays isnt reliable



http://duelingdays.blogspot.com/2011/05/alright-guys-since-last-rulings-post-i.html




too bad if thats fake then we dont have anything about those cards yet

I have looked up the rulings for Evolzar Soldde and found this (Don't know why I didn't do it in the first place)

Ｑ：ダメージステップ中に相手がモンスターを特殊召喚した時にこのカードの効果は発動できますか？
Ａ：いいえ、発動できません。(11/11/19)

It says it cannot be activated in the damage step

But that doesn't take away the fact that optional triggers can't activate within the damage step
If you summon Stratos via the effect of Elemental Hero Voltic, it will still activate

it only happened twice but played against people who think solddar summon cant be negated because of its effect protecting it from being destroyed by effects

am i the only one having the problem?

Of course you can negate its summon
You can also negate Red Nova Dragon's summon
They're never on the field to apply the effect

Now that Key said it... well, I was sure that it couldn't but really wasn't too sure about the reason why...
Let's see from what we know that can't trigger, perhaps my brain did something there without me knowing^^
So, what comes in my mind for triggers that do not work: This, Catoblepas and the Witch of Fate, Chaos Hunter, dragon ice, naturia horneedle, phantom dragon (prev official), Meklords, Green Baboon, t.g. warwolf, extra veiler...

Pushing the obvious mandatory effects aside there might be this general rule:
- If a monster has a trigger that summons itself in response to an action it can't be activated in the damage step.
- If a monster on the field has a trigger that does something when an opponents (another?) monster is summoned (=trigger in response to a special summon) it can't be activated in the damage step.

Exceptions found: Cyber Dinosaur, but that is previously official/bkss...
Not found a ruling to damage step: Naturia Antjaw, Verz Nightmare

Any objections to that? Any counter examples at hand? Thoughts?

I'd still assume you can't activate cards like Verz Nightmare either, it does have the exact same activation timing as Soldde.

And yes I believe we all agreed on that Soldde can't be activated in the damage step.

It is hard to draw a line to distinguish which Trigger effects can be activated in the damage step and which can't.

To sum it all up, here are the following cards that may be activated in the Damage Step.

Counter Trap Cards ("Solemn Judgment", "Dark Bribe").
Spell Speed 2 cards/effects that alter the ATK and/or DEF of one or more monsters on the field ("Blast with Chain", "Rush Recklessly", "Castle Walls", "Reinforcements", "Shrink", "Honest"). The card must DIRECTLY affect ATK/DEF to be valid; you cannot activate Scapegoat during the Damage Step even if you control United We Stand, for example, because Scapegoat does not directly change the ATK/DEF on any monsters.
Mandatory Trigger Effects ("King Tiger Wanghu").
Flip Monster Effects (which are mandatory by nature) ("Cyber Jar").
Quick Effect Monster Cards that negate the activation of other cards or effects ("Herald of Perfection, "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8").
Any card whose text specifically says it may be activated during the Damage Step ("Nutrient Z", "Kuriboh").

Laggia eff:

When a monster(s) would be Normal or Special Summoned, OR a Spell/Trap Card is activated: You can detach 2 Xyz Materials from this card; negate the Summon or activation, and destroy that card.

This is, according to the wiki, a quick Monster effect that negates the activation of Spell/Trap cards, but negating summons doesn't count so it cannot negate summons during the Damage Step. Even if it could, it can't negate summons as part of the resolution of another card effect a.k.a. non-inherent special summons.

Soldde eff:

While this card has Xyz Materials, this card cannot be destroyed by card effects. When your opponent Special Summons a monster: You can detach an Xyz Material from this card; destroy that monster.

According to the wiki, this is an optional trigger effect (that can miss its timing if ever relevant). It also cannot be activated during the Damage Step.

I think it's about time I tell you guys the unofficial rule
You cannot activate a trigger effect that summons from hand in the damage step

So any card that Dest mentioned are eliminated except from Catoblepas, Naturia Horneedle, which are the 2 cards that have similar effects to Soldde