Safe Zone 4

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Situation

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I switch to def mode on the equipped safe zone monster (captain gold) because I cann't beat his 4000 atk malefic cyber end dragoon

Opp start thinking I am cheating... (according to log)

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Log

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brandonbrooks255: hey
kangtuji: y
brandonbrooks255: y wat?
kangtuji has lost 700 life points
kangtuji has lost 100 life points
kangtuji: 1
kangtuji: 2
brandonbrooks255 has lost 1000 life points
brandonbrooks255: eff
brandonbrooks255: cant
brandonbrooks255: oyah
kangtuji: what effect
brandonbrooks255 has lost 100 life points
brandonbrooks255 has lost 500 life points
brandonbrooks255 has lost 3200 life points
kangtuji has lost 400 life points
kangtuji: field ef
kangtuji: equip to capt
kangtuji has lost 400 life points
kangtuji has lost 700 life points
kangtuji: field eff
kangtuji: summon good ?
brandonbrooks255: yah
kangtuji: xyz
brandonbrooks255: yah
brandonbrooks255 has lost 100 life points
brandonbrooks255: skill
kangtuji has lost 1900 life points
brandonbrooks255: ?
brandonbrooks255: hay!!!!
brandonbrooks255: atk
kangtuji: nope
kangtuji: swtich to defense
brandonbrooks255: eff of your trap
kangtuji: yes monster are not be to detrsoyed by battle
kangtuji: It cannot be targeted or destroyed by your opponent's card effects, it cannot be destroyed by battle, and it cannot attack your opponent directly.
brandonbrooks255: it says monster in atk
kangtuji: only in actication
brandonbrooks255: no?
brandonbrooks255: it continuos
kangtuji: yes
kangtuji: it continues
kangtuji: so ?
brandonbrooks255: holy shit
kangtuji: It cannot be targeted or destroyed by your opponent's card effects, it cannot be destroyed by battle, and it cannot attack your opponent directly.
kangtuji: book of moon target
brandonbrooks255: yah
kangtuji: It cannot be targeted
kangtuji: read safe zone
brandonbrooks255: read your card
brandonbrooks255: has to be in atk
kangtuji: only in activation bro
brandonbrooks255: call admin?
kangtuji: after that can switch to def
kangtuji: go ahead
brandonbrooks255: i cant
kangtuji: googling it
brandonbrooks255: k
brandonbrooks255: r u done?
kangtuji: hello ? you there ?
kangtuji: your turn
kangtuji: your move
kangtuji: not me
brandonbrooks255: wat did u find out?
kangtuji: what
brandonbrooks255: wat eva!!!!
kangtuji: I did find I was right of course
kangtuji: nubs... they never read the cards right -_-a
brandonbrooks255: lol
brandonbrooks255: oops
kangtuji has lost 400 life points
brandonbrooks255: noob......
kangtuji: which part "can not targetted" you dont understand
kangtuji: It cannot be targeted or destroyed by your opponent's card effects, it cannot be destroyed by battle,
brandonbrooks255: frickion noob
brandonbrooks255: learn how to play fair
brandonbrooks255 has left the duel

<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/abe6e1bef99e3a45fffe3e7e5ae25b41388b520ccded7cef98b315e8423b239e6g.jpg width=530 align=center>

<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5ade94205d56b4e388682816c380d3092f912201a1e85409f6e6858e9754a9ba6g.jpg width=530 align=center>

<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/6695efa9cdd000e21a565540067678fdeebfd6230be48822a97314c08261d9c96g.jpg width=530 align=center>

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Question:

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1. How to explain my opp that safe zone ATK position only for activation ?

As usuall, people always ignore what did I said to them... and I cann't show the safe zone ruling on previous thread.


2. How do I explain in simply way that Safe Zone prevent my monster get targetted, instead giving him "classic" answer "Read The F Card" ? (Before he quit, he targeting my captain gold with Compulsary Evacuation Device, as you can see in pic #3 and then he quit after I explain it cann't be targetted... previously he also trying to flip down captain gold with Book of Moon too... around 8 turns prviously)


3. also from previous thread... when did excatly safe zone remain meaningless faceup on field ?

1. Use the rulings for Safe Zone to show. The rulings state it (although it is OCG rulings state that).
3. Most common way is to have Decree or Jinzo face-up on field to negate Safe Zone, or use the monster that equipped with Safe Zone to Xyz summon, or when Safe Zone resolving, make Safe Zone's target leaves the field or Set face-down, and of course Set the monster face-down.

For a moment... I thought you are high on drugs

Was talking to edited Thai -> English missing word

Yeah... but cards states when monster leave field, destroy this card too

I said when Safe Zone resolves, and this is stated in the rulings too. And I fixed the post, it was an accident on a key.

That's a funny screenshot to me because Skill Drain doesn't let you use more than one malefic... so I'm going to keep an eye out for avoiding that username considering all that happened.

The eff of malefic in your hand would prevent you from summoning it even if the one on field no longer has that "only one" eff applied. And even then I'm not sure Skill Drain negate that's part anyway, in the same way a skilled drained Quickdraw can and must still be used for a "synchron" monster.

That's the effect of Malefic monsters, not condition. So Skill Drain can negate that. About Quickdraw Synchron, it has absolutely no effect at all, the entire card text of Quickdraw Synchron is condition (from summoning condition to restriction condition).
And kangtuji, how can your opponent control Malefic Cyber End and Malefic Stardust face-up on the field. I know there's a way to CONTROL 2 or more Malefics face-up on field, but since I can't look at your grave and your opp's grave, I must ask.

Ah you're right... didn't notice that.
He did summon malefic from his hand under skill drain effect

<img src=http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DrTanner/chan/facepalm.jpg width=140>

Meanwhile:

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Story

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1. SS BLS - prio remov
2. Opp chain Safe zone
3. He said he send Safe zone to grave -_-a

<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/30cb6c6c4a8cecab78152806d0353b4a0263add48ceccca49251f968855ad9546g.jpg width=530 align=center>

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Question

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Shouldn't it (his Safe Zone) supposed to stay meaninglessly in field ?

`"When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card." His Safe Zone will be destroyed and sent to grave.

I was confused by this part of "safe zone" efect becose the wikia rulings says the effect contenues to traget the monster after the activation. So i dont no if you can change the monster to def position..

Edit:
In OCG:
When the effect of "Safe Zone" resolves, if the targeted monster is in face-up Defense Position (for example, because "Enemy Controller" was Chained), then the effect of "Safe Zone" is still applied.[2]

SZ doesn't have any effect that prevent you from changing Battle Position.

On activation when choosing the target for Safe Zone, The target must be face-up Attack Position, after that, face-up ATK or face-up DEF doesn't matter anymore to Safe Zone.

nakata wrote:I was confused by this part of "safe zone" efect becose the wikia rulings says the effect contenues to traget the monster after the activation. So i dont no if you can change the monster to def position..

Edit:
In OCG:
When the effect of "Safe Zone" resolves, if the targeted monster is in face-up Defense Position (for example, because "Enemy Controller" was Chained), then the effect of "Safe Zone" is still applied.[2]

SZ does not stop targetting a monster if it changes its battle position. You may change a battle position through SZ.

Wikia referencing E-Con being chained means SZ was CL1, E-Con was CL2. While E-con succesffuly targets and resolves to change battle position of monster being targeted by SZ, because the monster was in attack mode when SZ targeted it, SZ is still valid and applies all effects.

New question arises.....

What happen to safe zone, if I XYZ summon using the monster being linked with safe zone ?

Is this count as monster leaving field ? or just stay meaninglessly ?

Safe Zone will remain on the field meaninglessly.

it has absolutely no effect at all, the entire card text of Quickdraw Synchron is condition (from summoning condition to restriction condition).

Funny question pertaining: does that mean that you could bring it back with effects that designate a "non-effect" monster, like Daigusto Emeral? Not talking outside Normal Monster stuff, but "non-effect" labeled support.

Vincent wrote:

it has absolutely no effect at all, the entire card text of Quickdraw Synchron is condition (from summoning condition to restriction condition).

Funny question pertaining: does that mean that you could bring it back with effects that designate a "non-effect" monster, like Daigusto Emeral? Not talking outside Normal Monster stuff, but "non-effect" labeled support.

Even if the monster has no effect, it still has "/Effect" on its card.

Well, it was worth a shot.

Actually, until now, no tuner has "/Effect" in card text, they always have like "Machine/Tuner" for both Normal and Effect Monsters. But we classified Effect Tuner Monsters and Normal Tuner Monsters (means non-effect) by the color of the card.

Wait, are the concept of Normal Monster and Non-Effect monster inseparable? Because I always thought if it specified "non-effect" instead of saying normal meant that theoretically, you could target non-normal monsters who also have no effect (i.e. Gem-Knight Zirconia)

"Normal Monsters" ⊂ "non-Effect Monsters". Just like "N" ⊂ "Z".

The non-effect is for using it with cards like Gem-knight pearl (Xyz) or Gaia force of the earth (Syncro)

Magicknight94 wrote:"Normal Monsters" ⊂ "non-Effect Monsters". Just like "N" ⊂ "Z".

I think it's the other way around.

Here is an 1121 / 183 opp who keep disagree even I give the link to this page.

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/ib6zQ.jpg style=max-width:100%>

kangtuji wrote:New question arises.....

What happen to safe zone, if I XYZ summon using the monster being linked with safe zone ?

Is this count as monster leaving field ? or just stay meaninglessly ?

BlackwingRa wrote:Safe Zone will remain on the field meaninglessly.

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paparoach212kill: hihi
paparoach212kill: ew hero
paparoach212kill: ;p
kangtuji: equip to leviair
paparoach212kill: i think that's on yours
paparoach212kill: it says it cant atack YOUR opponent direclt
paparoach212kill: so i cant attack myself directly
paparoach212kill: if its on me i can still attack.
paparoach212kill: all it does is make it undestroyable by battle.
paparoach212kill: which is bad for you
kangtuji: equip to leviair
paparoach212kill: ok
kangtuji has lost 1100 life points
paparoach212kill: on hero?
kangtuji: on hero
kangtuji: When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster.
paparoach212kill: ya. i got it
paparoach212kill: k
paparoach212kill: ef
paparoach212kill: k?
kangtuji has lost 400 life points
kangtuji: negate
paparoach212kill: k
paparoach212kill: safe zone no longer works
paparoach212kill: ya?
paparoach212kill: Safe zone gone
paparoach212kill: ^^^^^^
kangtuji: ?
kangtuji: safe zone staryt
paparoach212kill: "Safe zone" your trap
kangtuji: stay
paparoach212kill: ingles? english?
paparoach212kill: no, it's like an equip
paparoach212kill has lost 2000 life points
kangtuji: http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t10103-safe-zone-4
paparoach212kill: no
kangtuji: yes
paparoach212kill: put those 2 back
paparoach212kill: cant chain the trap being destroyed
paparoach212kill: with magic planter
kangtuji: I not use chain
kangtuji: safe zone stay on field
kangtuji: response to miracle
paparoach212kill: no
paparoach212kill: when the monster was destroyed
paparoach212kill: safe zone is destroyed.
kangtuji: nope
kangtuji: http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t10103-safe-zone-4
paparoach212kill: fricken a >+< sorry but this is annoying, gg. (i won ) usually im tollerated but not only are your responses super slow it barely seems like you know english
paparoach212kill has left the duel

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<img src=https://i.imgur.com/HV2kQ.jpg style=max-width:100%>

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<img src=https://i.imgur.com/Jft8J.jpg style=max-width:100%>


Oh forgot to mention that he using SOLEMN WARNING during my BP AND DRAW 2 or 3 CARDS BEFORE HE LEFT. #$*(&#

1) If you target your opponent monster with SZ, that monster still can attack your directly. But if you gain control that monster, you cannot attack directly with it.

2) SZ will remain face-up on the field meaninglessly if its target disappear (unless the monster leave the field).

looks like your opp was right acctually, if you did miracle a mon that had sz on it, sz would be destroyed

I guess I didn't capture on the right time

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1. SZ target was E.Hero neos -> EXCEED WITH TKRO -> Utopia
<ul>So Safe zone target on the picture <u>IS NOT UTOPIA</u></ul>
2. Opp start talking SZ got destroyed, and I telling him SZ stay, and give him link
3. Proceed to BP
4. HE FLIP SOLEMN WARNING
5. Back to M1, using miracle
6. Opp said he win because he understand english

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And please explain

why is if SZ monster XYZ, SZ remain on field
While using miracle fusion, SZ leaves field

Simple, very simple, because when Xyz, Neos Alius wasn't treated as "leaves the field"
(Read the rulebook for Xyz material)

Ok, I need that quote for future reference,

But still....
explaining simple thing to a netdecker its always they make it such an impossible task instead easy task even it is the simpliest things

Only if the old safe zone thread didn't get locked and deleted, I could have complete reffernce

Actually, I'm not convinced that the above is in fact true.

Here is what the rulebook says about Leaving the Field:

Spoiler:

The only thing it tells us there is that the monsters' own effects that trigger upon leaving the field will not activate. It says nothing about other card effects that rely on those monsters leaving the field. So the question is this: Is the reason monsters don't get their "leave the field" effects because of the process by which they leave the field, or because of the destination?

I argue it is the latter, the proof being that the rulebook specifically mentions becoming Xyz material and returning to the deck in the same context of "leaving the field," and you need only look at something like Tengu returning to the deck to understand that it is not the process itself that matters, but rather the fact that effects can't activate in the main deck (unless specifically stated). Assuming, as the rulebook implies, that becoming Xyz material is the same type of "leaving the field" as returning to the deck, then we get the same conclusion: Xyz material can never activate effects while they are Xyz material.

For this reason, I argue Safe Zone will, in fact, be destroyed when the monster it affects becomes Xyz material.

You have a point. Maybe we will let the Judges answer that.

Let's all make topics about what dumb things happen to us on DN, I'm sure it's useful for the community!

T3RCX wrote:Actually, I'm not convinced that the above is in fact true.

Here is what the rulebook says about Leaving the Field:

Spoiler:

The only thing it tells us there is that the monsters' own effects that trigger upon leaving the field will not activate. It says nothing about other card effects that rely on those monsters leaving the field. So the question is this: Is the reason monsters don't get their "leave the field" effects because of the process by which they leave the field, or because of the destination?

I argue it is the latter, the proof being that the rulebook specifically mentions becoming Xyz material and returning to the deck in the same context of "leaving the field," and you need only look at something like Tengu returning to the deck to understand that it is not the process itself that matters, but rather the fact that effects can't activate in the main deck (unless specifically stated). Assuming, as the rulebook implies, that becoming Xyz material is the same type of "leaving the field" as returning to the deck, then we get the same conclusion: Xyz material can never activate effects while they are Xyz material.

For this reason, I argue Safe Zone will, in fact, be destroyed when the monster it affects becomes Xyz material.

^this
When a monster is no longer on the field it must leave the field somehow. I'm fairly sure that you can't move from place a to place b without leaving place a. So you can not "not be on the field anymore" without leaving the field. The zone where xyz materials move to is simply threated similar as the main deck and that is why Tengu & co wont trigger there.
That being said, Safe Zone should be destroyed.

kangtuji wrote:I guess I didn't capture on the right time

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1. SZ target was E.Hero neos -> EXCEED WITH TKRO -> Utopia
<ul>So Safe zone target on the picture <u>IS NOT UTOPIA</u></ul>
2. Opp start talking SZ got destroyed, and I telling him SZ stay, and give him link
3. Proceed to BP
4. HE FLIP SOLEMN WARNING
5. Back to M1, using miracle
6. Opp said he win because he understand english

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And please explain

why is if SZ monster XYZ, SZ remain on field
While using miracle fusion, SZ leaves field

opp said you werent worth arguing with because the only sentence you managed to say was a direct quote from a card...and unless i blatently missed something your only explaination for why it stays is "safe zone stay, i dont use chain" which isnt even a coherent thought

I don't use chain, because I cann't chain to SZ desctuction effect AND Magic Planter is not quickspell

See, I did give the link TWICE why safe zone stay,
and you didn't even blink on see it

*facepalm*

All card I play are based on rulings I knew, so I doing without baseless assumption direct quote from a card may be wrong, but the results of discussion cann't be wrong. And I already ask this about 4 times before it got locked & deleted