The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
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The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-11-23, 20:43
Hello Dueling Network and Dueling Network forums! The following article describes the various sub-steps of the Damage Step (TCG). Yes, a card game intended for children is this complex. Anyway, in this article you will learn about the Damage Step and what can or cannot be used at certain points in the Damage Step. The Damage Step is fairly complex, so this is not really for begginers. If you cannot tell the difference between Spell Speeds, then please do not read this guide, you will only hurt yourself. Please read up on Spell Speeds before you continue. This is the basis of the guide. What can and cannot be used in the Damage step finds its roots in the spell speeds. You may also want to read up on the types of effects. Like Trigger, continuous and Ignition for example. Make sure to also know SEGOC and Priority as well. Anyway, let us start this wonderous journy into the Damage Step. Grab some popcorn, listen to some music, just to to have some fun...
To begin let me make a few statements. The Damage Step is not all one event. In fact it is comprised of 7 different sub-steps. These sub-steps determine what happens at one time, what can be used/played, etc. You must follow these steps. Failure to do so will result in an improperly played out game. Following this logic, you cannot skip steps or re-arrange the order of the steps. This is not allowed. You must follow them in order.
The 7 Sub-Steps are:
Before I start talking about the Damage Step let me talk about before the Damage Step.
Start/Attack Declaration
Before Damage Step
Earlier I mentioned only certain cards can be activated during this time. I will now list cards/card types that can be used during this step (as a whole):
Counter Trap Cards
Counter traps are spell speed 3. This means they are the fastest of the spell speeds. No other spell speed can counter this spell speed except Spell speed 3. For example, you cannot chain Book of Moon to Solemn Warning. Book of Moon is spell speed 2, and Solemn Warning is Spell Speed 3. You can however Chain Book of Moon to MST because they are the same Spell Speed (2). You may also chain Dark Bribe to Solemn Warning because they are the same Spell Speed (3). Since Spell Speed 3 are the fastest cards out there (in terms of Spell Speeds) they can be activated during the Damage Step. This is why you can Solemn Warning Gorz.
Attack and Defense Altering Spell Speed 2 Cards
This is the part that most people have trouble with. You can only use certain Spell Speed 2 cards during the Damage Step. Only cards that alter attack (and a few exceptions) can be used from this Spell Speed. Let's say My Thunder KIng attacks my Opponents Cyber Dragon. I activate Forbidden Lance Targeting his Cyber Dragon. Lance alters Dragons attack by reducing it by 800, so it can be used in the Damage Step. However, let us say my opponent then tries to chain Book of Moon. They are in fact the same Spell Speed (2), BUT Book of Moon cannot be used at this point. Why you may ask? It does not alter attack and/or defense, so it cannot be used. Another example of cards that can be used (that are not quick-play) are Honest and Kalut. They alter attack and are Spell Speed 2, so they work!
Effects that Specify that they can be used during the Damage Step
Rules can sometimes be broken. Certain cards specify that they can indeed be used during the Damage Step. Since they say you can, you can. Nutrient Z for example.
The underlined phrase dictate that you can use it during the Damage Step, dispite the lack of stat alteration or it not being Spell Speed 3.
Quick Effects/ Multi-Trigger
If a monster effect spcifies that you can negate a the activation of a card effect, it can be used. Cards like Hours the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and Light and Darkness Dragon are an example of this.
Other
Certain cards for whatever reason have been ruled to be able to be used during the Damage Step. These include:
Alright, here is the tricky part. Now that I have explained some basic restrictions and such, I would like to now describe the various sub-steps of the Damage Step. Have fun!
Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
Substep 2: Flipping the Face-Down Monster Face-Up
Substep 3: Before Damage Calculation
Substep 4: "During Damage Calculation"
Substep 5: Battle Damage - After Damage Calculation
Substep 6: Resolve effects
Substep 7: End of the Damage Step - Monster(s) Destroyed by Battle are Sent to the Graveyard
I would like to thank the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia. I used there guide as a template for mine. Although I used theirs as a template I changed it a lot. I summarized certain areas and made other areas more new player friendly. I also explained certain cards in detail which they did not. I provided some comments of my own as well. I built upon their guide and made it better. Consult their guide for spefic cards.
Examples/FAQ
Sources:
Breakdown of the Battle Phase - Yugioh Wikia
Yugioh Han dbook - Konami
To begin let me make a few statements. The Damage Step is not all one event. In fact it is comprised of 7 different sub-steps. These sub-steps determine what happens at one time, what can be used/played, etc. You must follow these steps. Failure to do so will result in an improperly played out game. Following this logic, you cannot skip steps or re-arrange the order of the steps. This is not allowed. You must follow them in order.
The 7 Sub-Steps are:
- Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
- Substep 2: Flipping the Face-Down Monster Face-Up
- Substep 3: Before Damage Calculation
- Substep 4: "During Damage Calculation"Substep 5: Battle Damage - After Damage Calculation
- Substep 6: Resolve effects
- Substep 7: End of the Damage Step - Monster(s) Destroyed by Battle are Sent to the Graveyard
Before I start talking about the Damage Step let me talk about before the Damage Step.
Start/Attack Declaration
- Spoiler:
-Turn player reatins priority to activate Spell Speed 2 cards now.
-Turn player may activate card effects that may be activated in response to an attack now.
-If the turn player plasses priority, the opponent may use these cards if the timing is right.
Before Damage Step
- Spoiler:
-Cards that can be used in response to an attack can be used now. Several chains can be formed now until both players agree to continue.
Earlier I mentioned only certain cards can be activated during this time. I will now list cards/card types that can be used during this step (as a whole):
Counter Trap Cards
Counter traps are spell speed 3. This means they are the fastest of the spell speeds. No other spell speed can counter this spell speed except Spell speed 3. For example, you cannot chain Book of Moon to Solemn Warning. Book of Moon is spell speed 2, and Solemn Warning is Spell Speed 3. You can however Chain Book of Moon to MST because they are the same Spell Speed (2). You may also chain Dark Bribe to Solemn Warning because they are the same Spell Speed (3). Since Spell Speed 3 are the fastest cards out there (in terms of Spell Speeds) they can be activated during the Damage Step. This is why you can Solemn Warning Gorz.
Attack and Defense Altering Spell Speed 2 Cards
This is the part that most people have trouble with. You can only use certain Spell Speed 2 cards during the Damage Step. Only cards that alter attack (and a few exceptions) can be used from this Spell Speed. Let's say My Thunder KIng attacks my Opponents Cyber Dragon. I activate Forbidden Lance Targeting his Cyber Dragon. Lance alters Dragons attack by reducing it by 800, so it can be used in the Damage Step. However, let us say my opponent then tries to chain Book of Moon. They are in fact the same Spell Speed (2), BUT Book of Moon cannot be used at this point. Why you may ask? It does not alter attack and/or defense, so it cannot be used. Another example of cards that can be used (that are not quick-play) are Honest and Kalut. They alter attack and are Spell Speed 2, so they work!
Effects that Specify that they can be used during the Damage Step
Rules can sometimes be broken. Certain cards specify that they can indeed be used during the Damage Step. Since they say you can, you can. Nutrient Z for example.
This card can only be activated during your opponent's Damage Step. During this turn, if you take Battle Damage of 2000 points or more, increase your Life Points by 4000 points before the damage is subtracted from your Life Points.
The underlined phrase dictate that you can use it during the Damage Step, dispite the lack of stat alteration or it not being Spell Speed 3.
Quick Effects/ Multi-Trigger
If a monster effect spcifies that you can negate a the activation of a card effect, it can be used. Cards like Hours the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and Light and Darkness Dragon are an example of this.
Other
Certain cards for whatever reason have been ruled to be able to be used during the Damage Step. These include:
- "Attack and Receive"
- "Chthonian Blast"
- "Desrook Archfiend"
- "Michizure"
- "Null and Void"
- "Numinous Healer"
Alright, here is the tricky part. Now that I have explained some basic restrictions and such, I would like to now describe the various sub-steps of the Damage Step. Have fun!
Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
- Spoiler:
- -At the beggining of the first sub-step certain Continuous Effects turn on. For example, cards like Steamroid and Jain, the Lightworn Paladin will turn on. At this time there attack increase/decrease would take place. This is the very first thing to happen in the Damage Step.
-Now the certain trigger effects activate at this time. Neo Spacian Grand Mole and The Six Samurai - Irou will activate at this time.
Let us take a look at Neo Spacian Grand Mole for a Second.At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles an opponent's monster: You can return both monsters to the hand (without damage calculation).
Notice the underlined phrase. This indicates that it will activate now, at the beggining of the Damage Step.
In the case of Irou, you do not perfom Damage Calculation becuase the monster is immediatly destroyed.
-Card effects that alter Attack/def that are spell speed 2 or higher can be activated at this time. Cards like Forbidden Lance and Rush Recklessly.
Substep 2: Flipping the Face-Down Monster Face-Up
- Spoiler:
-Face-down monsters that are attacked will now be flipped face-up at the beggining of this sub-step. Note, any flip or trigger effects that activate when flipped face-up, they will NOT activate at this time. They will activate at a later sub-step.
- Continuous Effects of the flipped monster are now applied. Cards like Blade Fly and Jinzo now have their effects applied.
-Continuous Effects that would otherwise destroy a monster (such as the effect of Thunder Nyan Nyan) will not activate at this time. Damage Calculation is first applied (the next sub-step). If the monster is destroy by battle; its destruction effect is not applied. If it survives; the effect is applied.
-Card effects that alter Attack/def that are spell speed 2 or higher can be activated at this time. Cards like Forbidden Lance and Rush Recklessly.
Substep 3: Before Damage Calculation
- Spoiler:
-Card effects that state “without applying Damage Calculation” or the like will now activate. Damage calculation will be skipped. An effect like Ehren, Lightsworn Monk will do this for example. She attacks, Sub-step one occurs. Sub-Step 2 then follows. The monster is flipped (effect is not activated yet, remeber this!). Now step 3 occurs. At this point Ehren will activate and send the monster flying back into the deck! Their effects are applied, then the Damage Step proceeds as normal after damage calculation.
Notice how it states "Before damage calculation." This indicates that Damage Calculation will not happen, and therefore at the start of the third Sub Step (Before Damage Calcuation) her effect applies before damage is dealt. Sending the monster back without any damage dealt.
Before damage calculation, when this card attacks a Defense Position monster: Shuffle that monster into the Deck. During each of your End Phases: Send the top 3 cards of your Deck to the Graveyard. You must control this face-up card to activate and to resolve this effect.
-Cards that activate when flipped face-up by an attack activate at this time. Generally these cards also skip Damage Calculation.
Let is take a look at Blast Sphere for example.
If an opponent's monster attacks this face-down Defense Position card, this card becomes an Equip Card equipped to the attacking monster, before damage calculation. Destroy the equipped monster during your opponent's next Standby Phase, and inflict damage to your opponent equal to the destroyed monster's ATK.
Notice again that this card also states before damage calculation. Any card with this phrase will activate during this sub-step. This gives it the chance to by-pass the rule that card effects of flipped monsters activate during a later sub-step. This means they will activate during this step, no damage dealt.
-Card effects that alter Attack/def that are spell speed 2 or higher can be activated at this time. Cards like Forbidden Lance and Rush Recklessly.
*NOTE: Multiple chains can be activated here. Lets say your Lance was negated by Judgement. You may start a new chain after using a stat altering card effect.
Substep 4: "During Damage Calculation"
- Spoiler:
-This is where battle damage is applied. Stats are compared and the appropriate amount of damage is dealt. Cards like Kuriboh and Injection Fairy Lily can be activated now. They will infact start a chain, but continuous effects will not.
-Unlike all the previous steps cards effects that alter your monsters attack and defense cannot be used. This applies to card like Shrink. Rememer in the 3rd sub-step you were allowed multiple chains with these cards, so that makes up for this. There is an exception however. Let us look at one of them!
Notice her effect states "once during damage calculation", this means that she can bypass this rule. In the Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulebook it states:
If this card attacks or is attacked, once during damage calculation you can pay 2000 Life Points to have this card gain 3000 ATK during that damage calculation only.
So basically if we follow this rule, Fairy Lily is allowed to break the rules because her card effect states she can activate her effect at this time. After all, Injection Fairy Lily plays by her own rules.
Rules vs. Card Effects
If there is a discrepancy between the basic rules and a card’s
effect, the card effect takes precedence. For example, a monster
can only attack once per turn, but with a card effect, it is possible
to attack twice.
-Unlike Sub-Step 3 we only get on chain here. All cards that apply "During Damage Calculation" will occur in this chain.
-In terms of this chain, only cards that specifically say "during damage calculation", are counter traps or have quick effect that negate (LADD and Herald of Orange Light) can be used during this step.
-Continuous effects that activate specifically during damage calculation are applied now.
NOTE: This happens before the chain occurs. They may be applied during the chain, or go away during the chain.
In the case of Skyscraper vs IFL Skyscraper is applied after IFL gains her attack.
-If a a mosnter is destroyed by a card effect at this point (such as Herald or Divine Wrath) the chain will continue as normal. Damage Calculation stops once this chain is done, and no battle damage is dealt (monster is not destroyed by battle as well. If one of the monsters is destroyed by a card effect; it is not considered destroyed by battle, it was destroyed by a card effect. The Damage Step now continues as normal.
Substep 5: Battle Damage - After Damage Calculation
- Spoiler:
-Self-destruction effects are now applied. Ex. Thunder Nyan Nyan
-Flash Bang can be used immediatly after damage is inflicted before any other effects activate. Then other effects will not activate.
Notice how it says after? So this means it gets priority over normal cards. Remember, Rules vs. Card Effects, Card Effects always win. This means it can be activated immediatly after Damage Calculation (during Sub-Step 5). This pre-empts other effects such as Kycoo and Spirit Reaper, making them not able to use their effects because now because the turn is done.Activate only after damage calculation when a monster your opponent controls made a direct attack. It is now the End Phase of this turn.
NOTE: Flashbang must resolve properly for this to apply!
-Effects that activate when battle damage is inflicted now activate. The effects of Kycoo and Spirit Reaper for example are now applied. Red Dragon Archfiends effect is also now applied.
The fact that RDA activates now means that if I were to attack Herald of Perfection with RDA Herald MUST survive the attack to be able to use its negation effect to stop RDA, otherwise RDA would run over Herald.
EX.1
RDA attacks Herald (normal conditions no response by either player). Herald gets destroyed by battle and then RDA activates. Herald remains on the field until the end of Damage Calculation, but since it was destroyed it's effect cannot be used.
EX2.
Opponent activates Waboku. I attack Herald With RDA. Herald survives, RDA effect goes off. My opponent can then chain Heralds negation effect to RDA and destriy him.
-These cards may also be activated at this time:- "Attack and Receive",
- "Numinous Healer",
- "Damage Condenser",
- a face-up "Damage = Reptile"
- "Attack and Receive",
Substep 6: Resolve effects
- Spoiler:
Rejoice! Your flip effects may now resolve! Remember that face-down Ryko that was attack then flipped face-up at the first sub-step? Now is his chance to shine and activate his effect. I mean, common... he wait like 4 steps for this.
-Flip effects and flip effect monsters that were flipped face-up may now use their effects.
-Trigger effects triggered by the card being flipped face-up may now activate. (EX. Penguin Soldier)
-The trigger effects of cards like D.D. Warrior Lady and Wall of Illusions now activate.
-Continuous effects applied when the monster was flipped face-up are no longer applied if the monster was destroyed by battle.
Lets talk about Penguin Soldier for a second. Penguin Soldier will be used as an example here. Let's say my Penguin Soldier was attack by my opponents Water Girl. During this Sub Step (6) Penguin Soldier effect will be triggered. I may now select up to two appropriate targets on the field.
Q. Can I select Penguin Soldier and return him to the hand?
A. No you cannot. This is because Penguin Soldier was destroyed by battle, but has not been sent to the graveyard yet. He is no longer a valid target. He will be sent to the grave during the next sub-step (7). You can however chose your opponents Water Girl, if condions are normal. Cards that were destroyed during Damage Calaculation (Sub step 4) are not valid targets.
Substep 7: End of the Damage Step - Monster(s) Destroyed by Battle are Sent to the Graveyard
- Spoiler:
-You may now send monsters that were destroyed by battle to the grave/Banished pile. Which ever one is appropriate at the time.
-Monster effects that activate when destroyed by battle and sent to the grave activate now and start a chain.
-Monster effects that activate when a monster is destroyed by battle and sent to the grave may be activated now.
-Monster effects that activate when it destroys a monster by battle may be activated/chained now.
NOTE: Some of these may apply differently for certain cards. Cards that don't specify the card hitting the grave (Apprentice Magician) will still work even if Macro Cosmos is face-up.
Let us look at some examples here.
I have Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame and my opponent has Gagaga Girl in face-up defense mode with Macro Cosmos in play (face-up). I attack Gagaga Girl and both players play no cards to interrupt the attack.
Let's take a look at BW - Shura's eff and see what happens!
When this card destroys an opponent's monster by battle and sends it to the Graveyard, you can Special Summon 1 "Blackwing" monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck. That monster's effect (s) is negated.
First let us look at the underlined part. That part has been fulfilled. Shura successfully destroyed Gagaga Girl by battle.
Q. Can I use Shura's Effect to summon Kalut from my deck?
A.Simply put, no. Let's take a look at the bolded part now. It states :"and sends it to the Graveyard", meaning sending the monster to the graveyard is a requirement to use its effect. Since Gagaga Girl was banished by Macro Cosmos as oppossed to being sent to the graveyard, Shura cannot use its effect.
Now lets look at another card with a similar effect. Same scenario.When your opponent declares an attack, you can select the attacking monster, and negate the attack. You can only activate this effect once (while this card remains face-up on the field). If this card destroys a Defense Position monster your opponent controls by battle, you can select 1 level 4 or lower "X-Saber" monster from your Graveyard and Special Summon it.
Notice the underlined part is almost exactly the same (except the monster MUST be in defesne).
Q. Can I use Fulhelm's eff to special summon Emmerseblade from my deck?
A. Yes you can! Sending the monster to the grave IS NOT a requirement like Shura's is. So if you destroyed Gagaga Girl by battle and she gets banished by Macro Cosmos, you can now use Fulhelm's eff since you destroyed her (in defense) by battle!
This is why Shura doesn't work on tokens and Fulhelm does. Token do not hit the grave. Shura cares, but Fulhelm doesn't, ful is cool like that.
-Cards that work with counters have the counters removed/added now. Cards like the B.E.S. series and Spacegate for example.
-Remember eariler I mentioned certain cards were given permission to be used in the Damage Step by Konami? Well some of them can be used now! For example:- “Michizure”
- "Chthonian Blast"
-Monster effects that activate at the end of the Damage Step or when sent to the graveyard/RFG are activated now.
- You may now re-enter the Battle Step. Each time a monster attacks, you must go throught the Damage step.- “Michizure”
I would like to thank the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia. I used there guide as a template for mine. Although I used theirs as a template I changed it a lot. I summarized certain areas and made other areas more new player friendly. I also explained certain cards in detail which they did not. I provided some comments of my own as well. I built upon their guide and made it better. Consult their guide for spefic cards.
Examples/FAQ
- Spoiler:
Q. Can I use Forbidden Chalice to stop a flip effect monster such as Ryko during the Damage Step?
A.Yes you can! Since Chalice is a spell speed 2 Attack/Defense modifier it can be used during Sub Steps 1 - 3 of the Damage Step. However, it cannot be used during Sub-Steps 4-7. So you cannot chain Chalice to the resoloution of Ryko's effect during Sub-Step 6. You would have to use Chalice during Sub Step 1 - 3. Luckily, since Sub-Step 3 is the last possible chance to use cards like Chalice in the Damage Step you are allowed multiple chains before Sub Step 4. This gives you no excuse for missing your chance to Chalice a card like Ryko.
Q. I attack my opponents Penuin Soldier with my Ehren, Lightsworn Monk. Does Penguin Soldier's effect still go off?
A. Sadly yes it does. During Sub Step one the monster is flipped and Ehren activates BEFORE Damage Calculation. Before DC is Sub-Step 3. So by this logic the monster has already been flipped when Ehren activates. During SS3 Ehren will send the monster flipping back into the deck. Here is the tricky thing though... the Damage Step continues as normal and once it reaches Sub Step 6 the flip effect of Penguin Soldier will then activate. The messed up part is that Penguin's effect will activate as if it was still on the field (so Ryko would still mill oddly enough). So during Sub Step 6 Penguin Soldier may return up to 2 monsters on the field to the owners hand. Even though he was sent back to the deck. Fun Stuff.
Sources:
Breakdown of the Battle Phase - Yugioh Wikia
Yugioh Han dbook - Konami
Last edited by vantagesp on 2011-12-15, 02:52; edited 5 times in total
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Ventus893 2011-11-23, 21:07
Great article, very informative and educational.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Tcbskater 2011-11-23, 21:28
It's great you wrote this. So many people who do not understand or even know about Substeps can now be enlightened.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Key 2011-11-23, 22:25
Lrn2Rulingz, nub :<
Lol
You clearly know continuous effects doesn't activate, it's only applied
Neither Jain nor Steamroid activates before it's a continuous effect
And make sure you mention replay does not occur during the damage step
vantagesp wrote:Let's say My Tunder KIng attacks my Opponents Cyber Dragon.
Lol
You may want to add Skull Meister, it's an exception to this rule.vantagesp wrote:Quick Effects/ Multi-Trigger
If a monster effect spcifies that you can negate a the activation of a card effect, it can be used. Cards like Hours the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and Light and Darkness Dragon are an example of this. [/color]
vantagesp wrote:Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
-At the beggining of the first sub-step you activate certain Continuous Effects. For example, cards like Steamroid and Jain, the Lightworn Paladin will activate.
vantagesp wrote:-Continuous effects that activate specifically during damage calculation are applied now.
You clearly know continuous effects doesn't activate, it's only applied
Neither Jain nor Steamroid activates before it's a continuous effect
Negate activation needs to be specifically written outvantagesp wrote:-In terms of this chain, only cards that specifically say "during damage calculation", are counter traps or have quick effect that negate (LADD and Herald of Orange Light) can be used during this step.
It is considered to be destroyed by battle, but it's sent to the grave because it is destroyed a second time by an effect.vantagesp wrote:If one of the monsters is destroyed by a card effect; it is not considered destroyed by battle, it was destroyed by a card effect.
And make sure you mention replay does not occur during the damage step
Last edited by Key on 2011-11-23, 22:36; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-11-23, 22:31
Fixed your nit picks. Thanks.
Here is a present for you.
Here is a present for you.
- Spoiler:
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
DefiniteOtaku 2011-11-23, 22:32
I approve of this thread.
Now excuse me while I link countless idiots to it.
Now excuse me while I link countless idiots to it.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Key 2011-11-23, 22:37
Actually, I realized that this is wrong
Since I got confused by some other mechanics
Key wrote:Yes, it's still applied, thus will be sent to grave because it's destroyed by its effect, even if it's already destroyed by battlevantagesp wrote:If the monster is destroy by battle; its destruction effect is not applied. If it survives; the effect is applied.
Since I got confused by some other mechanics
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-11-23, 22:41
Key wrote:Actually, I realized that this is wrongKey wrote:Yes, it's still applied, thus will be sent to grave because it's destroyed by its effect, even if it's already destroyed by battlevantagesp wrote:If the monster is destroy by battle; its destruction effect is not applied. If it survives; the effect is applied.
Since I got confused by some other mechanics
I figured. I meant cards like Nyan and Kozaky.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
DarkRiku 2011-11-24, 01:18
Nice article man. Wished they used GX as a hidden opportunity to teach people how to play the game. Biggest mistake ever.
Nice refresher course on the damage step for me. This is the reason why this game is played by older people as well. On the surface this game isn't complicated but you start looking deeper into the rabbit hole this came will surprise you on its learning curve.
Nice refresher course on the damage step for me. This is the reason why this game is played by older people as well. On the surface this game isn't complicated but you start looking deeper into the rabbit hole this came will surprise you on its learning curve.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
DefiniteOtaku 2011-11-24, 01:23
Learning curve?DarkRiku wrote:Nice article man. Wished they used GX as a hidden opportunity to teach people how to play the game. Biggest mistake ever.
Nice refresher course on the damage step for me. This is the reason why this game is played by older people as well. On the surface this game isn't complicated but you start looking deeper into the rabbit hole this came will surprise you on its learning curve.
More like Learning Sheer Cliff Wall.
I still think GX was good
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Ultimate lol 2011-11-24, 04:17
I'm missing a mention of cards like Tragoedia. Other then that, good stuff.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-11-24, 04:55
Ultimate lol wrote:I'm missing a mention of cards like Tragoedia. Other then that, good stuff.
Yeah, I should add him and Gorz. Will do tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Sillva 2011-11-26, 21:15
Good article. I give 2 thumbs up
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
raidou 2011-11-26, 21:26
nice!
this one is more detailed than the sticky
this one is more detailed than the sticky
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-01, 07:52
Small update! Added some examples.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-01, 08:14
Lol I pre-emptivly posted the update text before the actual update. I explained why Gorz and Trag cannot be used at the same time.
New Examples!
Ryko vs Forbidden Chalice in the DS
Gorz and Trag when damage is taken
Ehren vs Flip Effects
New Examples!
Ryko vs Forbidden Chalice in the DS
Gorz and Trag when damage is taken
Ehren vs Flip Effects
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Ninja
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-01, 08:29
Lol yeah, Gorz and trag was need though. I should make a guide explaining the various phrases on cards such as: When, If, Can. And also explain Mandatory vs Optional.
Like lets say I tribute Sangan for Raiza and spin their monster to the deck, they use pulling the rug.
Chain Link 1: Raiza
Chain LInk 2: Rug
Chain now resolves backwords. Raiza is negated, and destroyed.
Now a new chain is started by Sangan since he is mandatory and his effect MUST happen, even if you have no targets (it will still activate!).
Chain Link 1: Sangan
Now since a new chain has started, your opp can Debunk Sangan if they want or use Forbidden Graveyard to stop him from working.
Let's replace Sangan (mand. effect) with Botanical Girl. She is optional. Notice the When....can... in her effect. Since she is not mandatory she will miss her timing. The last thing to happen was NOT Botanical Girl being sent to the grave, and unlike Sangan, she does not have a mandatory effect (therefor it doesn't HAVE to happen). Because of this, she will in fact miss her timing. So her effect will not start a new chain after the Raiza chain.
Like lets say I tribute Sangan for Raiza and spin their monster to the deck, they use pulling the rug.
Chain Link 1: Raiza
Chain LInk 2: Rug
Chain now resolves backwords. Raiza is negated, and destroyed.
Now a new chain is started by Sangan since he is mandatory and his effect MUST happen, even if you have no targets (it will still activate!).
Chain Link 1: Sangan
Now since a new chain has started, your opp can Debunk Sangan if they want or use Forbidden Graveyard to stop him from working.
Let's replace Sangan (mand. effect) with Botanical Girl. She is optional. Notice the When....can... in her effect. Since she is not mandatory she will miss her timing. The last thing to happen was NOT Botanical Girl being sent to the grave, and unlike Sangan, she does not have a mandatory effect (therefor it doesn't HAVE to happen). Because of this, she will in fact miss her timing. So her effect will not start a new chain after the Raiza chain.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
BrandonBalls 2011-12-10, 04:21
Great article man! Now I can link this to people so they can learn the Wonders as well.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-10, 05:14
Thanks, the Damage Step can be very tricky to explain... so yeah xd.BrandonBalls wrote:Great article man! Now I can link this to people so they can learn the Wonders as well.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
kangtuji 2011-12-12, 02:20
Little Trivia / Question..... what happen ( Gem Knight Citrine )
<ul>1 "Gem-Knight" Monster + 1 Pyro-Type Monster
Must be Fusion Summoned, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. If this card battles, your opponent cannot activate the effects of Spell, Trap, or Effect Monsters until the end of the Damage Step.</ul>
if Attacking :
<ul>A. Sangan (When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck to your hand.)
B. BatteryMan Micro-cell (FLIP: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Batteryman" monster from your Deck, except "Batteryman Micro-Cell". After this card has been flipped face-up, when it is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, draw 1 card.)
C. Mystic Tomato (When this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, you can Special Summon 1 DARK monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck in face-up Attack Position.)
D. Amazoness SwordWoman (Your opponent takes all Battle Damage that you would have taken from a battle involving this card.)
E. GB Hoplumus (If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of a "Gladiator Beast" monster, its original DEF becomes 2400. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck, except "Gladiator Beast Hoplomus".)
</ul>
Which one is can active ?
NoneAmazoness Sword Woman
The question was floated because one of my opp said he can active the effect, because damage step is already ended when monster get destroyed
<ul>1 "Gem-Knight" Monster + 1 Pyro-Type Monster
Must be Fusion Summoned, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. If this card battles, your opponent cannot activate the effects of Spell, Trap, or Effect Monsters until the end of the Damage Step.</ul>
if Attacking :
<ul>A. Sangan (When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck to your hand.)
B. BatteryMan Micro-cell (FLIP: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Batteryman" monster from your Deck, except "Batteryman Micro-Cell". After this card has been flipped face-up, when it is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, draw 1 card.)
C. Mystic Tomato (When this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, you can Special Summon 1 DARK monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck in face-up Attack Position.)
D. Amazoness SwordWoman (Your opponent takes all Battle Damage that you would have taken from a battle involving this card.)
E. GB Hoplumus (If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of a "Gladiator Beast" monster, its original DEF becomes 2400. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck, except "Gladiator Beast Hoplomus".)
</ul>
Which one is can active ?
The question was floated because one of my opp said he can active the effect, because damage step is already ended when monster get destroyed
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Ultimate lol 2011-12-12, 03:28
A: Destroyed and send to the grave in the end of the damage step. -> Yes
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
D: Continues effect so yes.
E: Not even end of the damage step but end of the battle step. So yes.
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
D: Continues effect so yes.
E: Not even end of the damage step but end of the battle step. So yes.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Key 2011-12-12, 03:41
They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be preventedUltimate lol wrote:A: Destroyed and send to the grave in the end of the damage step. -> Yes
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
Van, your explanation for Gorz vs Tragoedia isn't right.
You cannot summon both because the unwritten rule says only 1 card effect summon from hand can apply
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Ultimate lol 2011-12-12, 03:50
Key wrote:They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be preventedUltimate lol wrote:A: Destroyed and send to the grave in the end of the damage step. -> Yes
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
Van, your explanation for Gorz vs Tragoedia isn't right.
You cannot summon both because the unwritten rule says only 1 card effect summon from hand can apply
Guess I should have used veiler as a reverence after all.
Damn my protesting logics.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-12, 03:57
Key wrote:They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be preventedUltimate lol wrote:A: Destroyed and send to the grave in the end of the damage step. -> Yes
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
Van, your explanation for Gorz vs Tragoedia isn't right.
You cannot summon both because the unwritten rule says only 1 card effect summon from hand can apply
True. I will update it later. But it does make sense right? Last thing to happen was not the Damage.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Key 2011-12-12, 04:11
Novantagesp wrote:Key wrote:They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be preventedUltimate lol wrote:A: Destroyed and send to the grave in the end of the damage step. -> Yes
B: No Flip effect. Do get the draw in the end of the damage step. See A
C: See A
Van, your explanation for Gorz vs Tragoedia isn't right.
You cannot summon both because the unwritten rule says only 1 card effect summon from hand can apply
True. I will update it later. But it does make sense right? Last thing to happen was not the Damage.
Because then people can use it to argue how you're no longer responding to a summon because Lonefire's effect is already activated. Or how you're not responding to an attack because Dimensional Prison is activated.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
kangtuji 2011-12-12, 06:45
- "POST 1":
- <blockquote>
Was going link him to this... but he quit before I even explained sub-steps
log
kangtuji: gl testing
Green_Gentleman:
kangtuji: wrong
kangtuji: oh crap
kangtuji: gemini summon
Green_Gentleman: ok
kangtuji: eff
kangtuji: obisidan eff
Green_Gentleman: why special summon?
kangtuji: obisidan eff
Green_Gentleman: ok
kangtuji: If this card is sent from your hand to the Graveyard, select 1 Level 4 or lower Normal Monster in your Graveyard and Special Summon it.
Green_Gentleman: you cant summon anymore
Green_Gentleman: you already performed
Green_Gentleman: gemini summon
kangtuji: its not normal summon
Green_Gentleman: gemini summoning
kangtuji: i didn't gemini summon for the 2'nd
Green_Gentleman: is counted as a normal summon
kangtuji: gemini summon = normal summon
Green_Gentleman: yes
kangtuji: yes.. i only use normal summon once
Green_Gentleman: yeah
Green_Gentleman: so you cant summon anymore
kangtuji: amber was special summoned by obisidian
Green_Gentleman: amber
Green_Gentleman: frahh
kangtuji: yea i didn't normal summon amber
Green_Gentleman: eff
kangtuji: no
kangtuji: citrine eff
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/Iy05T.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
kangtuji: return monster to deck
kangtuji: If this card attacks, your opponent cannot activate any Spell/Trap/Effect Monsters' effects until the end of the Damage Step.
Green_Gentleman: you need to read sir
Green_Gentleman: flip effects
kangtuji: you are need to read my monster effect
Green_Gentleman: are activated after the damage step
Green_Gentleman: yeah i know
kangtuji: nope
Green_Gentleman: do you know that?
kangtuji: flip effect are sub step 4
Green_Gentleman has left the duel
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/Lz0La.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/fRMXc.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/XorNC.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
Last pic: I PM him the link to here.... he is currently battleing with other person
</blockquote>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Spoiler:
- <blockquote>
THIS IS HAPPEN 2 HOURS LATERS SINCE LAST POST
<ul>This dude still doesn't even click the link I give... and even try to cheating special summon lv 4 AQUA
AND QUIT AT FIRST TURN AFTER I CORRECTING HIM
PLEASE REQUESTING SOMEONE TEACH THIS A.S.S.
1)
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/t7D8u.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
2)
<img src="https://i.imgur.com/pxL1C.jpg" style=max-width:100%>
BACKUP/MIRROR IMAGES :
1)
<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/517783095d88e2f0d55e301907314eea961f77263b4c3034b82491fdbd1b76496g.jpg style=max-width:100%>
2)
<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/09c29b9fd4960e6a0b6e94b6e3e8c143a810c97f7b375234b7a5bb4c3c07dc376g.jpg style=max-width:100%>
3)
<img src=http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/67104b65881705fcdbc66e25cb9e61af297b53d279215bc0184ada17593d29d76g.jpg style=max-width:100%>
3)
</ul>
</blockquote>
Last edited by kangtuji on 2011-12-16, 04:00; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
kangtuji 2011-12-15, 02:21
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
Here is a study case :
my opp keep arguing he get the effect, while I already post link to here, he said his effect active / valid , because damage calc. monsters are sent to grave after damage calc.
What is your answer ?
<blockquote>
kangtuji wrote:Little Trivia / Question..... what happen ( Gem Knight Citrine )
<ul>1 "Gem-Knight" Monster + 1 Pyro-Type Monster
Must be Fusion Summoned, and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. If this card battles, your opponent cannot activate the effects of Spell, Trap, or Effect Monsters until the end of the Damage Step.</ul>
if Attacking :
<ul>A. Sangan (When this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard: Add 1 monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck to your hand.)
B. BatteryMan Micro-cell (FLIP: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Batteryman" monster from your Deck, except "Batteryman Micro-Cell". After this card has been flipped face-up, when it is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, draw 1 card.)
C. Mystic Tomato (When this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, you can Special Summon 1 DARK monster with 1500 or less ATK from your Deck in face-up Attack Position.)
D. Amazoness SwordWoman (Your opponent takes all Battle Damage that you would have taken from a battle involving this card.)
E. GB Hoplumus (If this card was Special Summoned by the effect of a "Gladiator Beast" monster, its original DEF becomes 2400. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck, except "Gladiator Beast Hoplomus".)
</ul>
Which one is can active ?
The question was floated because one of my opp said he can active the effect, because damage step is already ended when monster get destroyed
Source : http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t10413p25-the-7-wonders-of-the-damage-step-tcg#133061Key wrote:<font style=text-decoration:blink>They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be prevented</font>
Van, your explanation for Gorz vs Tragoedia isn't right.
You cannot summon both because the unwritten rule says only 1 card effect summon from hand can apply
</blockquote>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is a study case :
my opp keep arguing he get the effect, while I already post link to here, he said his effect active / valid , because damage calc. monsters are sent to grave after damage calc.
What is your answer ?
<blockquote>
Log
kangtuji: pump 3
TheGame166 has lost 1900 life points
kangtuji has lost 1300 life points
kangtuji has lost 500 life points
TheGame166 has lost 200 life points
kangtuji has lost 1400 life points
TheGame166 has lost 400 life points
TheGame166 has lost 200 life points
kangtuji: ?
kangtuji: citrine eff
TheGame166: end of step
kangtuji: nope
kangtuji: during damage
TheGame166: yes the monsters eff happens when sent to grave after damage
kangtuji: your card eff active on sub-step 4
<img src=https://i.imgur.com/sKPED.jpg style=max-width:100%>
TheGame166: It says damage calc. monsters are sent to grave after damage calc. my eff is valid
kangtuji: http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t10413-the-7-wonders-of-the-damage-step-tcg
<img src=https://i.imgur.com/OnjxV.jpg style=max-width:100%>
TheGame166: Mine is the last step im right
kangtuji: nope, They all activate in the damage step, its activation will be prevented
kangtuji: same timing as mystic tomato
TheGame166 has left the duel
<hr>
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2011-12-15, 02:53
As per request of Key, Gorz thing has been removed.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
RastreadorFT 2011-12-20, 10:52
Key wrote:Lrn2Rulingz, nub :<vantagesp wrote:Let's say My Tunder KIng attacks my Opponents Cyber Dragon.
LolYou may want to add Skull Meister, it's an exception to this rule.vantagesp wrote:Quick Effects/ Multi-Trigger
If a monster effect spcifies that you can negate a the activation of a card effect, it can be used. Cards like Hours the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and Light and Darkness Dragon are an example of this. [/color]vantagesp wrote:Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
-At the beggining of the first sub-step you activate certain Continuous Effects. For example, cards like Steamroid and Jain, the Lightworn Paladin will activate.vantagesp wrote:-Continuous effects that activate specifically during damage calculation are applied now.
You clearly know continuous effects doesn't activate, it's only applied
Neither Jain nor Steamroid activates before it's a continuous effectNegate activation needs to be specifically written outvantagesp wrote:-In terms of this chain, only cards that specifically say "during damage calculation", are counter traps or have quick effect that negate (LADD and Herald of Orange Light) can be used during this step.It is considered to be destroyed by battle, but it's sent to the grave because it is destroyed a second time by an effect.vantagesp wrote:If one of the monsters is destroyed by a card effect; it is not considered destroyed by battle, it was destroyed by a card effect.
And make sure you mention replay does not occur during the damage step
Key is right, not everything is for speed, but some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Ultimate lol 2011-12-20, 10:58
RastreadorFT wrote:some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
No, No they don't
Counter, aka spell speed 3, is the "fastest" spell speed.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Miror B. 2012-01-01, 22:12
Nothing is faster than a counter trap.RastreadorFT wrote:Key is right, not everything is for speed, but some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
Continuous effects just don't care about speed at all since they apply automatically.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Smokay 2012-01-01, 22:40
So then let me ask you this.Miror B. wrote:Nothing is faster than a counter trap.RastreadorFT wrote:Key is right, not everything is for speed, but some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
Continuous effects just don't care about speed at all since they apply automatically.
What if you counter trap a counter trap?
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Saturn 2012-01-01, 23:07
Smokay wrote:So then let me ask you this.Miror B. wrote:Nothing is faster than a counter trap.RastreadorFT wrote:Key is right, not everything is for speed, but some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
Continuous effects just don't care about speed at all since they apply automatically.
What if you counter trap a counter trap?
The counter trap chain to the other counter trap because they have the same speed. Hurr durr.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Smokay 2012-01-01, 23:20
And then quick plays like mst come in. Also, this guide is missing the step where the players have arguments over priority rulings.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Adept VantageSP 2012-01-01, 23:27
RastreadorFT wrote:Key wrote:Lrn2Rulingz, nub :<vantagesp wrote:Let's say My Tunder KIng attacks my Opponents Cyber Dragon.
LolYou may want to add Skull Meister, it's an exception to this rule.vantagesp wrote:Quick Effects/ Multi-Trigger
If a monster effect spcifies that you can negate a the activation of a card effect, it can be used. Cards like Hours the Black Flame Dragon Lv8 and Light and Darkness Dragon are an example of this. [/color]vantagesp wrote:Substep 1: Start of the Damage Step
-At the beggining of the first sub-step you activate certain Continuous Effects. For example, cards like Steamroid and Jain, the Lightworn Paladin will activate.vantagesp wrote:-Continuous effects that activate specifically during damage calculation are applied now.
You clearly know continuous effects doesn't activate, it's only applied
Neither Jain nor Steamroid activates before it's a continuous effectNegate activation needs to be specifically written outvantagesp wrote:-In terms of this chain, only cards that specifically say "during damage calculation", are counter traps or have quick effect that negate (LADD and Herald of Orange Light) can be used during this step.It is considered to be destroyed by battle, but it's sent to the grave because it is destroyed a second time by an effect.vantagesp wrote:If one of the monsters is destroyed by a card effect; it is not considered destroyed by battle, it was destroyed by a card effect.
And make sure you mention replay does not occur during the damage step
Key is right, not everything is for speed, but some cards have effects faster than the counter traps.
Try harder next time if you're gonna nit pick.
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
Saturn 2012-01-02, 04:57
Smokay wrote:And then quick plays like mst come in. Also, this guide is missing the step where the players have arguments over priority rulings.
-completely disregards the big wall of quotes posts-
Quicky plays = speed 2 = can't be chained = sucks to be you
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
T3RCX 2012-01-02, 07:05
The Seal of Orichalcos card printed by UDE has a spell speed 4 negation effect.
But srsly...
This is one of those articles you want to bookmark for sure. Maybe one day someone (me) will write about the differences between TCG and OCG in the damage step...
But srsly...
This is one of those articles you want to bookmark for sure. Maybe one day someone (me) will write about the differences between TCG and OCG in the damage step...
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Re: The 7 Wonders of the Damage Step! (TCG)
LilyRainEve(TeWe) 2012-01-13, 16:07
continuous effect considered to be stoped applying in "After Damage Calculation" not at the time flip effect activate.
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=18090296&postcount=29
:yareyare:, i can't believe key doesn't nitpick this part :v
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=18090296&postcount=29
:yareyare:, i can't believe key doesn't nitpick this part :v
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