Rulings and Mechanics Problem Set A

I'm getting to understand more and more each day about this stuff..and I'm going to start making "Problem Sets", for stuff I do not know, or just ambivalent of. This Problem Set will be beneficial to anyone with that said. Please answer precisely and explain why something is ruled the way it is ruled please. Thanks.

Judge Questions

These are several questions that I came up with. I might send a few more question sets just to cover all of the ruling categories that are troubling.

1.If Garoth doesn’t “activate”, then can Herald negate it? Likewise can you use divine wrath on bountiful artemis? Likewise what about dolkka/zenmaines vs zenmaines detach eff? Pt 2:Regardless of whether his effect activates it’s a mandatory draw effect..so to the question on an official yugioh test. If you summon celestia sending your top four cards to the graveyard, and two of those were lightsworns, garoth forces you to draw though…so because you aren’t capable of drawing when you draw you lose right? They said you don’t, which doesn’t make sense to me.

2. The ruling says for mst v. metal reflect slime, even if u chain slime, then the taraget, i.e. metal reflect slime is destroyed regardless. So isn’t the dark world lightning ruling contradictory? Dark world lightning selects a facedown target, after an opponent is able to chain…even if they did chain at that instant and play the card faceup I thought that dark world lightning can still resolve as the target has already been marked. So the selection of dark world lightning has been made, and then you pass priority to them..let’s say they activate call of the haunted..why can’t dark world lightning resolve..because I thought that even if the target is no longer facedown when the target was selected it was facedown, thus meeting its requirements.

3.If I activate mind crush and then I chain trap reclamation to it..and then I chain trap reclamation to my previous trap reclamation..and I discarded a snow from mind crush..a ceruli from reclamation..and a grapha from my second reclamation..doesn’t that form three different chains? So basically my thoughts are this..the first chain is cl1 mind crush, cl2 trap rec, cl3 trap rec 2..and then there are three other chains that form..the second chain iscl1 is ceruli (coming from the second trap rec, and remember the discarding of mind crush happens at the resolution so it wouldn’t be discarded first) ..the second chain link is grapha …and the third chain link is snow in that order correct, since they weren’t triggered simultaneously? On the other hand would the cards discarded by trap reclamation be in the same chain as that trap reclamation since they activate simultaneously, since discarding and chaining happens simultaneously?

4.What happens if I use ryko eff and I mill three cards, but the second card mill’d was peten the dark clown..can I still use his trigger eff?

5.Why does yugioh say “You cannot activate "Emergency Provisions" if you already have 5 cards in your Spell & Trap Card Zone”..i mean isn’t that a given?

6.Take the card, “dark room of nightmare”, for example. Since the effect is mandatory, what if you have a chain of four links that are all burn cards, now what would happen..would dark room of nightmare form four different chains or something? :S.

7. Ok so consider the possibility of chaining your own mirror force to magic cylinder. I understand that you are able to chain it since each chain link is responding to a declared attack..but with that mindset are you able to chain mirror force to your battle fader? Having said that, is it possible to chain any other card with your own cards in response to the last resolved action(of course considering timing conditions, e.g. it’s a given that mirror force’s eff would fizzle if fader was chained to it since the battle phase has already ended.

8.Can you explain why some cards do not have to remain face up for their effects to resolve? For example I don’t see why d.d. sprite must remain faceup for the monster to return, and why diamond dude wouldn’t have to remain face up for the spell card sent to activate it. How do you distinguish this from card to card.

9.Since spirit reaper starts his own chain, can I use mind control on spirit reaper..then spirit reaper forms his own chain and then would I be able to chain fiendish chain to spirit reaper? Likewise this alludes to a previous question. Does spirit “activate”, or just does his effect “apply”. If he forms a chain link, which he does..wouldn’t you call it “activation”? If not I’d just call it application.

9 Pt 2:so if you have lets say the first chain we will call chain a. let’s say chain a is composed of four or three links..and then another chain, chain b is formed..let me get this right..so chain a has to resolve first before chain b and its links resolve correct?

10.So if Bob summons exiled force, and he claims he has no response to the summon himself, and the priority is passed on to Simon. Simon responds to the summon with a trap hole, so can Bob now chain torrential tribute since he passed on his priority? He can’t, right? Despite the fact that priority is passed on to him from the trap hole?

1. Garoth is a trigger. You can negate it with Herald, etc. Bountiful Artemist is continuous, and so cannot be negated with Herald.
Dolkka vs Zenmaines: Dolkka attack -> Zenmaine detach: End Phase Zenmaine destroys -> Dolkka negates -> Zenmaine detach. Zenmaines vs Zenmaines works similarly, where they destroy each other once and detach 1 each. Zenmaines not-destroyed effect is continuous and cannot be negated by dolkka, etc. (didn't know that), and destroy effect can only be activated once during any turn.
Pt.2: Celestia is special among LS that it mills not as an effect but as an cost. It will not trigger Garoth effect. And even if it did, that would just mean Garoth tries to mill 2, which it cannot if the deck is empty, so no draw occurs. YuGiOh rules state only that you lose if you're forced to draw and you cannot. BTW, you seem to have a misconception, but Garoth does not draw for LS milled off by other LS effects.

2. MST doesn't care whether the card is face-up or face-down. Trap monsters are still treated as traps even after summon, so MST would still destroy it anyway. DWL requires the card to be face-down at resolution.

3. listen to the guy below. He has it correct. Cost discards do not trigger DW effects.

4. All three cards are sent simultaneously. As such, Peten will not miss timing, barring other circumstances.

5. yes, yes it is.

6. Dark Room of Nightmare effect is continuous. It does not use the chain.

7. trigger effects are SS1. They cannot be chained to anything, unless it involves SEGOC.

8. Eh. Not sure on this one. I believe for Diamond Dude, he creates something liker a lingering effect that's no longer bound to the monster. D.D. Sprite's effect remains with the monster, so if it's face-down, its effect no longer applies. It's hard to tell. You'll have to go card-by-card on this one.

9. Spirit Reaper effect is not a trigger, it is continuous. He does not form a chain.
P2: correct.

10. Once Simon activates trap hole, he immediately passes priority back to Bob, and Bob can chain TT to trap hole, since it is still during the summon response window.

1. a) Garoth is a trigger effect. Herald can negate it.
b) Artemis is a continuous effect. Divine Wrath cant negate it.
c) I dont get what youre asking about dolkka & zenamines, please explain
d) You win if your opponent has no cards in their Main Deck when he/she is required to draw a card.

2. a) if you mst and they chain metal reflect slime, its still destroyed
b) If DW Lightning targets a face-down Quick-Play Spell Card or Trap Card and that card is then chained, then DW Lightning cannot destroy the card because it is no longer face down. Also, if DW Lightning cannot destroy the selected card, then you cannot discard one card from your hand.

3. a) i) For trap reclamation, the effect applies to the trap card is was chained to; so if you chain a 2nd trap reclamation you get your 1st trap reclamation back.
ii) trap reclamation is a cost so DW's dont get their effects

4. If Peten is sent from the top of the deck to the graveyard by Ryko's effect, its effect can be activated if there are no other effects remaining on the Chain.
N.B. If Peten is destroyed by Ryko, its effect cant be activated.

5. While its obvious to most people, there will always be those who think other wise eg they may think once the 5 s/t goes to grave there would be space for it or something like that.

Will answer more later...

DragonMaster99 wrote:1. a) Garoth is a trigger effect. Herald can negate it.
b) Artemis is a continuous effect. Divine Wrath cant negate it.
c) I dont get what youre asking about dolkka & zenamines, please explain
d) You win if your opponent has no cards in their Main Deck when he/she is required to draw a card.

2. a) if you mst and they chain metal reflect slime, its still destroyed
b) If DW Lightning targets a face-down Quick-Play Spell Card or Trap Card and that card is then chained, then DW Lightning cannot destroy the card because it is no longer face down. Also, if DW Lightning cannot destroy the selected card, then you cannot discard one card from your hand.

3. a) i) For trap reclamation, the effect applies to the trap card is was chained to; so if you chain a 2nd trap reclamation you get your 1st trap reclamation back.
ii) trap reclamation is a cost so DW's dont get their effects

4. If Peten is sent from the top of the deck to the graveyard by Ryko's effect, its effect can be activated if there are no other effects remaining on the Chain.
N.B. If Peten is destroyed by Ryko, its effect cant be activated.

5. While its obvious to most people, there will always be those who think other wise eg they may think once the 5 s/t goes to grave there would be space for it or something like that.

Will answer more later...

Ah right..well wasn't that obvious that trap rec was a cost.


Thanks you guys..all really helpful.

1. Garoth's effect is a Trigger effect which starts a chain, to which you can use Herald of Orange Light, Divine Wrath, etc. Bountiful Artemis on the other hand is a Continuous Effect which does not start a chain and cannot be stopped by Herald/Divine Wrath/etc. Zenmaines' effect to protect himself by detaching a material is also a continuous effect and cannot be stopped by Herald/Zenmaines/Divine Wrath/etc. When it comes to Celestia, Lightsworm Angel, it's actually a cost to mill the top 4 cards off of your deck for her effect, so Garoth's effect does not activate when Celestia is used. Because Garoth's effect won't activate, you do not mill a "Lightsworn" monster by his effect, you are not required to draw and cannot deck out and lose as a result.

2. When a card specifically targets another, it must remain as a legal target upon resolution. Dark World Lightning's target must remain face-down upon resolution for the player to be able to discard by the effect. Metal Reflect Slime says specifically in the card text that it is still treated as a Trap Card, which means if Mystical Space Typhoon is targeting it, and Metal Reflect Slime is activated in chain, it shall still be destroyed as it is still a legal target for Mystical Space Typhoon.

3. Trap Reclamation is a cost to discard, so it will not trigger Dark World effects. However, let's say you used a Fabled monster, who would receive its effect, for the sake of explaining the chain. CL1 will be Mind Crush, CL2 will be Trap Reclamation #1, and CL3 will be the second Trap Reclamation. The effects from your discarded cards will activate on a second chain, starting with your discarded Fabled monster as CL1, and the Snoww being CL2 from being discarded upon resolution of Mind Crush.

4. Peten the Dark Clown will not miss his timing if he is milled by Ryko's effect, as long as no other effects are remaining within the chain.

5. It should be a given, but better safe than sorry.

6. Dark Room of Nightmare is a continuous effect which does not use chain. It shall not interrupt the chain in any form, but wait upon the resolution of each card within the chain to apply its effect.

7. You can chain Battle Fader to Mirror Force and both will resolve properly. Both have proper activation timings (unless a Counter Trap card was activated that stops one of their effects), and neither will conflict with each other's resolutions. You can chain your cards to your own cards after your opponent has passed priority back to you for their response to your initial activation of an effect.

8. For the case of D.D. Sprite, it has to do with the fact that returning a face-up Monster banished by its summoning procedure is a Trigger effect that activates the during the next Standby Phase, so it must be face-up during then to resolve properly. For Diamond Dude, the effect to activate the effect of a Spell Card is tied to the Spell Card in the graveyard, and not Diamond Dude himself, so it will still apply if he's face-down. You can distinguish this by knowing what exactly the card effect is tied to, and when it activates or is applied.

9. Spirit Reaper's effect that kills himself when he is targeted is a continuous effect and does not start a chain. It is indeed "applied" instead of "activated." Cards that target him must finish resolving before Spirit Reaper's effect is applied and destroys him. In your specific situation, CL1 would be Mind Control and CL2 would be Fiendish Chain. Fiendish Chain would resolve, negating all of Spirit Reaper's effects, protecting him from being destroyed, and then control of Spirit Reaper would properly switch over to you.

9.2. Correct. When cards cause another chain to be created, the first chain must fully complete and resolve before the second chain begins to go through the process of resolution.

10. Bob cannot chain Torrential Tribute as the initial priority pass to Simon closed his chance to activate cards that are required to be activated during the Summoning Response Window.

Diamond Dude doesn't have to stay face-up on the field for the player to use the Spell Card it mills, but the Spell Card must stay in grave until the timing comes in order to activate the effects.
Peten the Dark Clown WILL BE ABLE to trigger the effect. Check storyteller post.
Bob is able to chain Torrential Tribute to Trap Hole because it is still the summon response window.

So what really happens with peten? it seems we have discrepancies..the mill simultaneous or no?

Dark Room of nightmare may be continuous but I thought it says each "time" a card inflicts damage to your opponent...so wouldn't it stack off off of each chain link?

No chaining mirror force to a battle fader..that would work actually I'm pretty sure.

Unorthodoxical-Princ wrote:So what really happens with peten? it seems we have discrepancies..the mill simultaneous or no?

Dark Room of nightmare may be continuous but I thought it says each "time" a card inflicts damage to your opponent...so wouldn't it stack off off of each chain link?

Dragon Master hit the nail on the head involving Peten. I was unaware of the ruling myself until I had looked it up specifically, and thought that Ryko's mills weren't simultaneous.

Storyteller has everything correct (Didn't bother to read anyone else's x_x) except #1 about Dolkka and Zenmaines (Which is continuous)

Key wrote:Storyteller has everything correct (Didn't bother to read anyone else's x_x) except #1 about Dolkka and Zenmaines (Which is continuous)

Interesting. I don't see how this effect could be continuous, but I feel bad now, since I've been negating the thing on occasion X_X
Edited original post to reflect the correct dolkka vs zenmaines.

storyteller wrote:2. MST doesn't care whether the card is face-up or face-down. Trap monsters are still treated as monsters even after summon, so MST would still destroy it anyway, but at that point it is still not treated as a monster. DWL requires the card to be face-down at resolution.

I'm sure you mean Traps?

Ack. I'm sure most people just read over that x_x

Key wrote:Storyteller has everything correct (Didn't bother to read anyone else's x_x) except #1 about Dolkka and Zenmaines (Which is continuous)

Specifically what is continuous. Dolkka is a quick effect..and Zenmaines is continuous. Does that mean Garoth is continuous?

Unorthodoxical-Princ wrote:

Key wrote:Storyteller has everything correct (Didn't bother to read anyone else's x_x) except #1 about Dolkka and Zenmaines (Which is continuous)

Specifically what is continuous. Dolkka is a quick effect..and Zenmaines is continuous. Does that mean Garoth is continuous?

Garoth is a Trigger effect.

Zenmaines "safe myself" effect is continous, the end phase effect is a trigger. Garoth is a trigger as well.

Every "i do this instead of being destroyed" is a continous effect. Six sams, GK Visionary, Zenmaines, it's all the same.

Being ignored again

Thanks everyone, you've all been helpful. Although, can someone answer my question about Dark Room of Nightmare? So...if there is "Chain A", having four chain links, and Dark Room of Nightmare is on the field, (presumably in favor of the chain), when would it "activate", or apply, and how many times? Wouldn't its effect "apply" four different times?

Unorthodoxical-Princ wrote:Thanks everyone, you've all been helpful. Although, can someone answer my question about Dark Room of Nightmare? So...if there is "Chain A", having four chain links, and Dark Room of Nightmare is on the field, (presumably in favor of the chain), when would it "activate", or apply, and how many times? Wouldn't its effect "apply" four different times?

Quoting myself here:

6. Dark Room of Nightmare is a continuous effect which does not use chain. It shall not interrupt the chain in any form, but wait upon the resolution of each card within the chain to apply its effect.

If all of the cards in that chain were cards that inflict burn damage, Dark Room of Nightmare will apply for each effect that causes burn damage.

Tcbskater wrote:

Unorthodoxical-Princ wrote:Thanks everyone, you've all been helpful. Although, can someone answer my question about Dark Room of Nightmare? So...if there is "Chain A", having four chain links, and Dark Room of Nightmare is on the field, (presumably in favor of the chain), when would it "activate", or apply, and how many times? Wouldn't its effect "apply" four different times?

Quoting myself here:

6. Dark Room of Nightmare is a continuous effect which does not use chain. It shall not interrupt the chain in any form, but wait upon the resolution of each card within the chain to apply its effect.

If all of the cards in that chain were cards that inflict burn damage, Dark Room of Nightmare will apply for each effect that causes burn damage.

Ok..so it applies four different times? The reason why I stress that is because if Dark room of nightmare resolves/applies just one time it will take out the damage in one "step", but if it was like four different times now we are talking about chains here? >.> It's just confusing...so no cards can be activated when Dark Room of Nightmare is resolving all four times? This seems like chain language to me..I understand it wouldn't be a chain..but can someone tell me the legalities of what can and can't be done during this multiple restrating process of continuous effects like the situation which I previously posed.

Like can you activate a response card in between Dark Room of Nightmare's counting of four times for each of the cards? It seems very similar to a chain where you have something resolve four times consecutively..and I kinda need to know what can be done and what can't for that to fully understand it.