Monster Rebon on S/T zone & Necrovalley active on field

**kangtuji** 2012-02-25, 05:46

Okay.... a rank 1211-436

Said he can activate (set) mosnter rebornon his s/t zone
while necrovalley active on field

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/VdCna

As you can see... the opp tring to cheating in unrated
He has full s/t zone, and almost depleted deck

https://imgur.com/kvcSq <-- his empty spot s/t was monster reborn

Socko925: the card doesnt say i cant activate cards that special summon from grave
Socko925: yes
Socko925: the eff is negated
kangtuji: jesus
Socko925: doesnt mean i cant activate
Socko925: theres the difference
kangtuji: screenshot for being ignorant
Socko925: k
Socko925: go ahead
Socko925: continue
kangtuji: put reborn back to s/t
Socko925: thheres no rule for being ignorant, fyi
kangtuji: you cann't even activated it

Question:
- Can we has quiz testing when someone register on DN ? Nobody these day know the basic rulings anymore, just copy someone else deck from net

**Magicknight94** 2012-02-25, 06:19

He CAN. Necrovalley will stop (or negate in OCG) Monster Reborn's effect at its resolution.

**Dragonknight1991** 2012-02-25, 06:26

The Admin is right, the cards in the grave are uneffected, but at doesn't mean he can't activate it. It's like activating a trap while Royal Decree is on the field, you can but most of the time it's stupid.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-25, 06:27

Okay.. that the 3'rd people said he can.. https://imgur.com/a/VdCna

so >mfw
Monster Rebon on S/T zone & Necrovalley active on field 2787258705_9aa0c3b717

I'll search ninjistu thread that said you cann't even active something, wish me not misreading it

**Magicknight94** 2012-02-25, 06:38

kangtuji wrote:Okay.. that the 3'rd people said he can.. https://imgur.com/a/VdCna

so >mfw

I'll search ninjistu thread that said you cann't even active something, wish me not misreading it

Ninjistu cannot be activated if things like Dyna exist on the field, because Dyna prevent you special summon.

Necrovalley doesn't prevent card from being used on grave. It protect cards in grave from being affected by another effect.

**poemi** 2012-02-25, 06:39

if you go by OCG ruling, then he obviously can activate reborn, but it will be negated.

and if you go by TCG ruling mostly will say you can activate IT, it just will resolve w/o effect.

so either way, he can do that.

ps: OP, you do understand the differences between prevent and negate right?

**Saturn** 2012-02-25, 06:42

poemi wrote:if you go by OCG ruling, then he obviously can activate reborn, but it will be negated.

and if you go by TCG ruling mostly will say you can activate IT, it just will resolve w/o effect.

so either way, he can do that.

ps: OP, you do understand the differences between prevent and negate right?

He can't tell the difference between a cost to activate an effect and an effect, either.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-25, 06:53

So all these time I've been letting and telling my opp to grab back their monster reborn (from hand) while necrovalley active on the field

Monster Rebon on S/T zone & Necrovalley active on field Tumblr_ly0tuyuOjn1qkn284

Monster Rebon on S/T zone & Necrovalley active on field Tumblr_ly0tuyuOjn1qkn284

This thread gonna change everything

So, basically they have no rights grabbing back anything they use after while necrovalley active on the field

**MrChillmatic** 2012-02-25, 06:56

He can activate Monster Reborn or Monster Reincarnation (if he's stupid enough), but can't summon / get back a monster since Necrovalley prevents cards in the grave from being affetcted by other effects.

TL;DR: He can activate Monster Reborn but can't summon a monster.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-25, 07:03

So, to confirm it...
heres another situation from yesterday

Necrovalley active,
Opp. summon lumina
Opp discard one card
( but necrovalley prevent it.... )

so supposed he didn't get the discarded card back ?

**RareHunter** 2012-02-25, 07:12

Yup. You can activate Monster Reborn. Necrovalley prevent Monster Reborn to target a card, so he can't revive a monster and Monster Reborn goes to grave (resolve w/out effect(no special summon monster)).

I dont know how time i told duelist (specially you) from my country (see my Info) to do this:

RareHunter wrote:Read teh F card text after netdEck before use it in duel

kangtuji wrote:So, to confirm it...
heres another situation from yesterday

Necrovalley active,
Opp. summon lumina
Opp discard one card
( but necrovalley prevent it.... )

so supposed he didn't get the discarded card back ?

See the explaination about Monster Reincarnation above

**Saturn** 2012-02-25, 07:12

Yes, because the cost to activate Lumina's effect is to discard 1 card. He can activate Lumina's effect, but a monster won't be Special Summoned because Necrovalley prevents it from happening. Same with Monster Reborn. He activates it, nothing is SS'd, goes to grave.

Learn how to play the game, before you berate others about it.

**Virtuozo** 2012-02-25, 07:19

RareHunter wrote:Yup. You can activate Monster Reborn. Necrovalley prevent Monster Reborn to target a card, so he can't revive a monster and Monster Reborn goes to grave (resolve w/out effect(no special summon monster)).

He can target a monster, just like you can target 5 monsters with Pot of Avarice with Necrovalley active, it's just that the effect won't resolve and the monster won't be summoned or the monsters won't be shuffled into the deck in the case of Pot - you won't draw 2 either.

And yes, you get to discard with Lumina, target a monster, but you won't be able to summon it.

**RareHunter** 2012-02-25, 08:38

**raidou** 2012-02-25, 11:02

cant believe he didnt know! he rages so often about people and rulings i thought hell know something like this!

i better tell you this know

if LaDD its on the field you can still activate any effects you want even if theyll get the activation negated

same goes for horus lv 8! or decree ( ive seen that mistake often people seems to think decree is the same as jinzo)

**Phoenix Wright** 2012-02-25, 11:10

The admin is right, monster reborn resolves without a target

Necrovalley says "cards in the graveyard cannot be targeted by effects" if monster reborn couldn't be activated, it would say something along the lines of "cards that target monsters in the graveyard cannot be activated"

Key may be a cheting lucksacker, but he knows what he's doing

**kangtuji** 2012-02-25, 11:13

I've been playing wrong all the time and opp didn't argue back when I said return the monster reborn to hand (and all other effect, cost regarding necrovalley, they're all returned back to hand) and regarding monster reborn itself, well.. now I have define proof the doesn't grab monster reborn back.
I repeat : Many butthurt player grab back monster reborn after they know they doesn't get the monster back

and yes, you activate treeborn in same phase 4x to negate that ladd

About decree, I remember some people butthurt the same thing, but I didn't use royal decree so much

**raidou** 2012-02-25, 11:17

i remember you making topics about ninjas so you must like ninja decks too

i often have to explain i can still activate my N art trap cards even with decree out (i do it to use magic planter or gold on it )

i though you have the same problem

**Virtuozo** 2012-02-25, 11:53

Phoenix Wright wrote:The admin is right, monster reborn resolves without a target

Necrovalley says "cards in the graveyard cannot be targeted by effects" if monster reborn couldn't be activated, it would say something along the lines of "cards that target monsters in the graveyard cannot be activated"

The newest card's text includes the sentence:

Cards in either player's Graveyard cannot be affected by card effects, except for their own effects.

So I would say Monster Reborn selects its target but just the summoning effect is negated.

**RareHunter** 2012-02-25, 11:56

Virtuozo wrote:The newest card's text includes the sentence:

Cards in either player's Graveyard cannot be affected by card effects, except for their own effects.

So I would say Monster Reborn selects its target but just the summoning effect is negated.

That what we said :/

**Phoenix Wright** 2012-02-25, 11:56

Same result

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 06:57

Okay... in this situation... https://imgur.com/SHwRL

Did opp get back his spell card ?
Note he alrady banish (proto) cyber dragon before noticing necrovalley

**poemi** 2012-02-26, 07:43

kangtuji wrote:Okay... in this situation... https://imgur.com/SHwRL

Did opp get back his spell card ?
Note he alrady banish (proto) cyber dragon before noticing necrovalley

It would be better if you start a new thread for this question.

Banishing for Overload is not a cost.
If somehow he can fusion something without banishing card from the grave, then the activation is legal and he would summon something different instead.
However if he cannot fusion anything then the activation was illegal indeed. This situation can simply by returning Overload to his hand (also return that proto).

And I guess no further action can be taken on online dueling.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 08:32

Summoning with monster reborn also isn't cost either

How this is different that negating by necrovalley, as he can activated it and send to graveyard (Let say the opp has 5 s/t occupied including overload fusion, and necro active on field)

**poemi** 2012-02-26, 09:45

kangtuji wrote:Summoning with monster reborn also isn't cost either

How this is different that negating by necrovalley, as he can activated it and send to graveyard (Let say the opp has 5 s/t occupied including overload fusion, and necro active on field)

can I have you explain what is a cost and what is a card effect? because I think you didn't catch it.

Fusion summon has it's own mechanic just like any some other special summon (sync, xyz, ritual, contact). I don't see how it can blatantly compared to special summon via monster reborn effect.
I suggest for some reading on fusion summon mechanic and rulings on the fusion cards.

again... TCG necrovalley never negate (by it's current text)

**dest** 2012-02-26, 10:18

necro prevents banishing cards from the graveyard. Since you are not allowed (prevented) to banish card you may not activate anything that includes banishing as a mandatory effect

**raidou** 2012-02-26, 11:52

kangtuji wrote:Summoning with monster reborn also isn't cost either

How this is different that negating by necrovalley, as he can activated it and send to graveyard (Let say the opp has 5 s/t occupied including overload fusion, and necro active on field)

the difference is playing monster reborn with necrovalley out is a legal play

and activating overload fusion with necrovalley out and without at least 1 cyberdragon and 1 machine on the field isnt a legal play so is k to take it back

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 19:22

Okay honestly... this negating thing now confuses me

* Monster reborn targeting monster in graveyard, so there is active but negated (and send to graveyard)
* Call of reborn targeting monster in graveyard, so there is active but negated (and send to graveyard or remain on field ?)
* Overload Fusion targeting monster on field (and in graveyard), so there is active but negated (and send to graveyard)

Wait... maybe because overload fusion doesn't target, just like super poly ?

So, card does target graveyard, will able to active (and send to graveyard) but card doesn't target can not ?

**Dragonknight1991** 2012-02-26, 20:04

Overload Fusion can remove monsters from the grave and if you can't summon a fusion with the monsters on the field it will be seen as an illegal play.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 20:15

Monster eborn can revive monsters from the grave and if you can't summon a monster inside the grave it will be seen as an illegal play.

Oh more note, at that moment, mosnter reborn also has legal target on graveyard
So this situation should be no different from Mosnter reborn, and If you following this thread the spell cards (Overload fusion) are supposed send to graveyard

**CheyMcFly** 2012-02-26, 20:16

Saturn wrote:

Learn how to play the game, before you berate others about it.

This needs 9998989999 +1s because anything kang doesn't understand is net decking according to him. He even insults opponentw for knowing the rules when kang himself doesnt know them(looks at op). Kang keep posting screens of you being wrong/a jerk please

Also kang if that test that you want given to new players was given to you I don't think you'd pass. If you are.sick of Jew.players(even though they were right) then stop facing.them...

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 20:25

Actually..., I have no problem with jews Neutral

I am more sick of espanols
They cann't read english and adding the effect by themself,
yes call me racist, but I am tired facing espanols, I wish I could stop facing them all

But then again that nothing to do with this thread Neutral

**CheyMcFly** 2012-02-26, 20:35

I obvuously meant new players but my phone autocorrected to jews. there. now reread my postt ._.

**S.S.A.** 2012-02-26, 22:25

still says jews chey...lol

**kangtuji** 2012-02-26, 23:16

On this situation... goes to grave or hand ?

https://imgur.com/03ZQG

**S.S.A.** 2012-02-26, 23:36

effect goes through, he takes damage and the card stays in the grave, pretty sure

**poemi** 2012-02-27, 01:21

take damage without adding.
but I'm not sure.

**Virtuozo** 2012-02-27, 06:38

kangtuji wrote:On this situation... goes to grave or hand ?

https://imgur.com/03ZQG

The activation is legal as long as there's a Blackwing monster in the graveyard, then the monster is targeted but it is not added to the hand and no damage is taken.

Take damage equal to the ATK of the selected monster and add it to your hand. (two simultaneous effects are negated)

**CheyMcFly** 2012-02-27, 07:54

S.S.A. wrote:still says jews chey...lol

phone wont let me edit post -.-

**Badass_Bunny** 2012-02-27, 09:21

Since the issue has been resolved. I have to ask, is it possible to ask a ruling without giving us a whole backstory of your opponent rank/claims/social number and such? Cause I see no relevance in that.

**[EP] Irate** 2012-02-27, 09:58

I wish I could lock topics...
Because this is exactly what kangtuji's threads deserve most of the time.

**kangtuji** 2012-02-27, 10:27

Badass_Bunny wrote:Since the issue has been resolved. I have to ask, is it possible to ask a ruling without giving us a whole backstory of your opponent rank/claims/social number and such? Cause I see no relevance in that.

Since you must be new here

Let me explain, by looking at the rank system, my opp has high rank/rating/claim/social number (wtf ? I only knew their rank)

By rank system, meaning my opp supposed isn't a newbie, and should be knew atleast the basic rule or their OWN card. Unless you cann't see the rank system has obviously represtive the actual numbers, there should'be no problem around it

Now... from the rank, meaning this is part of background. Unless I explaining the detailed backstories, there will be some, incomplete part. By telling the whole story, who knew if I was wrong like this thread

I post all the convo, and turned out I was wrong, and I learned from this,

Imagine what if I only post a little part of it ? The truth never revealed !

**S.S.A.** 2012-02-27, 13:21

kangtuji wrote:
Badass_Bunny wrote:Since the issue has been resolved. I have to ask, is it possible to ask a ruling without giving us a whole backstory of your opponent rank/claims/social number and such? Cause I see no relevance in that.

Since you must be new here

Let me explain, by looking at the rank system, my opp has high rank/rating/claim/social number (wtf ? I only knew their rank)

By rank system, meaning my opp supposed isn't a newbie, and should be knew atleast the basic rule or their OWN card. Unless you cann't see the rank system has obviously represtive the actual numbers, there should'be no problem around it

Now... from the rank, meaning this is part of background. Unless I explaining the detailed backstories, there will be some, incomplete part. By telling the whole story, who knew if I was wrong like this thread

I post all the convo, and turned out I was wrong, and I learned from this,

Imagine what if I only post a little part of it ? The truth never revealed !

did you just tell an admin theyre new? and your opps rating is irrelevant to a ruling question...also how do you know, when playing in unrated, they arnt using a new deck? i always run brand new decks with cards i dont understand in unr...by giving so much abckstory your just being rude and slandering people who simply dont know nuanced rulings, or neclected to read parts of cards.

tl;dr your being a douche

**Miley Syrus +** 2012-02-27, 14:32

To better explain this would be the scenario when your opponent has a royal decree faceup and you have facedown traps. He ends his turn and you draw, you are allowed to activate a card such as waboku however it's effect wont activate and will basically become ineffective and go to the graveyard doing nothing.

Monster Reborn can be activated when necrovalley is on the field, it's effect just wont work.

No more idiotic statements or childish phrasing. Answer the question, confirm it, then leave it alone.

Locked.

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