Solemn Warnings Limit: Yep! Read This You Overusing People!!!

**cybear13** 2011-05-17, 08:55

First of all, I like to post this because I have taken a toll on the duels I have explaining every noob and feeling [Pro] people that they know everything...

Its about our ever popular Solemn Warning!

Let us all review:

Solemn Warning

Counter Trap

Pay 2000 Life Points. Negate the Summon of a monster OR the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s), and destroy that card.

So here's the catch:

1) READ THIS!!! Solemn Warning CAN'T NEGATE already active Spells and Traps that summons a monster!!!!

So you can't negate an already active JAM BREEDING MACHINE when it activates during the standby phase...

2) IMPORTANT!!! You can't negate the summon of a monster by a card effect.

Ok, your dumb to let your opponent activate Monster Reborn. Then when he summons your Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon, you go "WHOA!!! I SOLEMN WARN THAT MONSTER!"

Any comments:

Please add..

**Minako** 2011-05-17, 09:02

cybear13 wrote:
Ok, your dumb to let your opponent activate Monster Reborn. Then when he summons your Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon, you go "WHOA!!! I SOLEMN WARN THAT MONSTER!"

While you can't negate a monster summon by monster reborn you can negate monster reborn's activate and you must declare your intended target when you activate monster reborn. So if you were to activate monster reborn I would ask you for the target then solemn warn you anyways. Also even though you can't activate solemn waring against any spell, trap, or effect that is already in play you can' negate the activation of those cards so you're right...but you're mostly wrong. This is also why many people believe you can't use warning on gorz. You can't negate his summon but you can negate his activation.

**cybear13** 2011-05-17, 09:11

Thanks for the input.

For the monster reborn example, You really need to ask a target first... Its just for example purposes...

I can't seem I got something wrong here?
Do you care to explain and locate where I explained wrong?

Yep I understand the Gorz Ruling...

Thanks for the additional info...

**Minako** 2011-05-17, 09:17

Basically they should know your target beforehand. I'm just pointing out that even though You're right but it still wouldn't work against anybody that knows better because they would want to know the target before they let you do it anyways. Also

cybear13 wrote:1) READ THIS!!! Solemn Warning CAN'T NEGATE already active Spells and Traps that summons a monster!!!!

So you can't negate an already active JAM BREEDING MACHINE when it activates during the standby phase...

You can't negate the activation of cards like Valhala, infernity launcher, jam breeding machine, or like cards with solemn warning at all. You can only negate cards which summon at activation. So those cards can never be stopped by warning.

However you can negate future fusion with warning because future fusion doesn't start a chain on turn two. The original activation is what causes the summon so you can negate it even if the summon would occur two turns later.

**prominense** 2011-05-17, 18:42

it hink this will explain everything http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Solemn_Warning

**Mango** 2011-05-17, 20:19

If they play monster reborn and you ask "target" you can not warn it.

Guest 2011-05-17, 20:59

Mango wrote:If they play monster reborn and you ask "target" you can not warn it.

You don't seem to get something here. maybe its because English is your second language or maybe its because you are just misinformed or maybe i am just misunderstanding you but either way im going to say this anyway.

When you use monster reborn you have to call a target. You call your target at the activation of monster reborn and not the resolution so your opponent CAN ask for your target and still negate monster reborn with solemn warning or any other card that con negate it.

**Al-Bhed** 2011-05-17, 21:28

cybear13 wrote:2) IMPORTANT!!! You can't negate the summon of a monster by a card effect.

Ok, your dumb to let your opponent activate Monster Reborn. Then when he summons your Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon, you go "WHOA!!! I SOLEMN WARN THAT MONSTER!"

Any comments:

Please add..

While I would always support the fact that you have to follow proper precedures and not activate warning when you see the monster on the field as it would be after the resolution of monster reborn, I also support the fact that we do not only follow rules when it is convenient for us. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, maybe whenever you activate monster reborn you clearly name your target, that's fine then, this is to those that skip things like targetting.

As you know and as it has been stated Monster Reborn targets, Mango, know that targetting happens at activation as Red Harlow said, that is before the opponent even has the chance to chain, by the time the opponent chains a card he knows the target.

It's not "they can ask for your target", it's "you MUST declare a target", that is everytime you activate monster reborn you say what is your target, you wouldn't activate MST and magically expect your opponent to know what s/t you are attempting to destroy, would you? So let's see, why would the opponent decide to warning the REDMD once he sees it on the field? It could be that he is slow, but could the reason be that he never knew what was about to be summoned? If you activate monster reborn, don't declare a target, summon the monster and then after the opponent finaly learned what the monster was because he can see it on the field, activates warning and you call him out for that you may be rule sharking for a very simple reason. If you skipped the targetting process that means you yourself has set a shortcut in the game which says "I won't say my target since you'll see it on the field anyways", so you cannot really be one to ask of your opponent to reveal a card before he sees your target.

If you want rules to be followed, follow them all, but then again shortcuts are fine, we all use them, they help our game, keeps things more fun without making everything so tedious, but you can't expect to be the only one allowed to take the shortcuts, then you should allow some misconduct to your opponent as well if you do it too.

Of course as I said you may be one to always declare your targets properly and clearly, that would be good then, you'd have the right to call things like that out, playing the game properly is better than not.

**Mango** 2011-05-17, 21:56

Red Harlow wrote:
Mango wrote:If they play monster reborn and you ask "target" you can not warn it.

You don't seem to get something here. maybe its because English is your second language or maybe its because you are just misinformed or maybe i am just misunderstanding you but either way im going to say this anyway.

When you use monster reborn you have to call a target. You call your target at the activation of monster reborn and not the resolution so your opponent CAN ask for your target and still negate monster reborn with solemn warning or any other card that con negate it.

The rule is if you must warn the monster reborn before they call the target because the target is not the cost its just a part of the card.

**Minako** 2011-05-17, 22:02

Mango you must tell your opponent the intended target of monster reborn upon it's activation. This is how we make monster reborn fail with call of the haunted, dd crow, disappear, limit reverse et cetera (way to many cards to list them all) by chaining too it. It's always been that way.

Disappear: When a card that selects a card in the Graveyard as a target, such as "Monster Reborn"...is activated, you may chain "Disappear" to remove the targeted card from play, and the "Monster Reborn", etc., will resolve without effect. This is because these cards select their target at activation, not resolution.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Monster_Reborn

The purple is a ruling found in yugi wikia. Read through this link and you'll find that you are very wrong.

**Mango** 2011-05-17, 22:52

If you are going to put a ruling in my face it would be nice if the card had a ruling on the url.

Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

Because the card does not target a monster in the graveyard before it kicks in you have to warn it without knowing the target to "Negate" it and D.D. Crow does not "Negate" so he is just a part of the chain.

**Mango** 2011-05-17, 23:06

Before you get it wrong.

1st Card Lore: Select 1 Monster Card from either your opponent's or your own Graveyard and place it on the field under your control in Attack or Defense Position (face-up). This is considered a Special Summon.

2nd Card Lore: Select 1 monster from either you or your opponent's Graveyard. Special Summon the selected monster on your side of the field.

3rd Card Lore: Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

^^^^ We are on 3 now and your pic is from LoB so its out dated.

"Select" Is not longer on the card. Smile

Guest 2011-05-17, 23:27

Mango, when people have rulings proving your wrong and everyone but you thinks that your wrong then your probably wrong.

being stubborn and not listening to reason only stands to do two things for you: make you look bad at the game and make you look unreasonable. I suggest you fold while your ahead.

**Nicker Ridders** 2011-05-18, 06:56

Mango wrote:If you are going to put a ruling in my face it would be nice if the card had a ruling on the url.

Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

Because the card does not target a monster in the graveyard before it kicks in you have to warn it without knowing the target to "Negate" it and D.D. Crow does not "Negate" so he is just a part of the chain.

You are wrong.

Monster Reborn targets. Anything that targets MUST be done before anyone could activate anything, including a Counter Trap to negate said card.

You cannot activate Warning to negate Reborn before a target is chosen.

Now go away and learn how to play before complaining that other people are wrong.

**Tamaru** 2011-05-18, 08:23

cybear13 wrote:For the monster reborn example, You really need to ask a target first... Its just for example purposes...

The target really needs to be declared when the card is activated. You don't need to "ask." If the opponent fails to declare a target when they activate Monster Reborn and just Special Summons it, you should be allowed to activate Solemn Warning on the Reborn anyway.

**cybear13** 2011-05-18, 08:30

First, I would like to thank all of you for posting and clearing things up.

I would like to thank you all also for correcting me in some cases and I'm very grateful. Smile

It is your corrections that make me better duelist... Very Happy

Any more to add....

A lot of people are well maybe ready this and are now informed of some of the rulings...

**Minako** 2011-05-18, 09:02

Mango wrote:If you are going to put a ruling in my face it would be nice if the card had a ruling on the url.

Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

Because the card does not target a monster in the graveyard before it kicks in you have to warn it without knowing the target to "Negate" it and D.D. Crow does not "Negate" so he is just a part of the chain.

The ruling is on the url I provided you with. Read through it. We are talking about basic ygo and you just refuse to listen. You have no idea how bad you sound right now.

**Toxique** 2011-05-18, 12:24

The people who said that you can negate Monster Reborn even after knowing the target, are right. Targetting happens at the same time as activating a card and paying the cost. If the opponent just Special Summons something without declaring the target and you still activate Solemn Warning, you can just say that you treated it as their way of saying what they target.

Minako wrote:
You can't negate the activation of cards like Valhala, infernity launcher, jam breeding machine, or like cards with solemn warning at all. You can only negate cards which summon at activation. So those cards can never be stopped by warning.

This is also very incorrect. Solemn Warning can negate the activation of a card that "that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s), and destroy that card." It works like Stardust Dragon in this case: it literally checks the card for a word, in Stardust's case 'destroy', in this case 'Summon'. If it is found, it can be activated.

I will use a ruling found here as a backup:

You can negate the activation of Macro Cosmos with this card.[1]

Of course, you can say that this is similar to Future Fusion, but read Macro Cosmos closely:

You can Special Summon 1 "Helios - The Primordial Sun" from your hand or Deck when you activate this card.

The Special Summon is optional. At the time of activation, it isn't even known whether or not a monster will be Special Summoned, yet it is possible to activate Divine Warning. This is because the card doesn't care whether or not a summon will actually occur: it simply checks the effect for the word 'summon'.

I hope this clarifies.

**Pharaoh Atem** 2011-05-18, 16:18

I would hope that players would have the sympathy to read the rulebook *and* brush up on any ancillary rulings before starting an argument on this site.

Targeting, BY DEFINITION, is "selecting a card as relevant to a card or effect as part of the activation procedure of that card or effect."

Reborn targets.

This means that you say which mon you want to Reborn as part of activation procedure - which means that you say that before you ask if your opponent wants to Chain to Reborn.

I only explained because I found the simple explanations in other posts to be lacking, and the complex ones to be unclear.

**Mango** 2011-05-18, 20:33

Old : Select 1 monster from either you or your opponent's Graveyard. Special Summon the selected monster on your side of the field.

New Reborn : Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

When you guys put up a ruling try to use the page of the ruling you are talking about.

A Counter trap like warning the other player does not have to say his cost and if you ask then you can not warn it.

The old one said "Select" witch is a kind of cost the new one no longer has the word "Select".

It has been called out at Regionals before that you can not ask for a target then warn but if they play monster reborn and says the target right away you can replay it and warn it.

**catking** 2011-05-18, 20:58

Mango wrote:Old : Select 1 monster from either you or your opponent's Graveyard. Special Summon the selected monster on your side of the field.

New Reborn : Special Summon 1 monster from either player's Graveyard to your side of the field.

When you guys put up a ruling try to use the page of the ruling you are talking about.

A Counter trap like warning the other player does not have to say his cost and if you ask then you can not warn it.

The old one said "Select" witch is a kind of cost the new one no longer has the word "Select".

It has been called out at Regionals before that you can not ask for a target then warn but if they play monster reborn and says the target right away you can replay it and warn it.

Then that regionals was wrong. A card doesn't need to have the word select in it, and errata always clarifies text, or makes it clear how it works. The targeting must happen when you activate it.

**Pharaoh Atem** 2011-05-18, 21:10

You can accept the answer as it stands - that Reborn targets - or you can be wrong.

The choice is yours.

YGO's management does not follow text patterns flawlessly; we have cited this as a bad thing for years. But it does not change what Reborn does.

**ILLUMINATiD** 2011-05-18, 22:00

I like the part where he thinks reborn doesnt target first....

Well, I thought the title was implying warning needs a limit, which IMO is a good discussion that needs to be made into a thread.

**Pharaoh Atem** 2011-05-18, 23:11

Frankly, I disagree.

It's more likely that'd be a poor discussion filled with anecdotal evidence, a complete lack of reverence for other opinions, and petulant behavior.

In short, folks wouldn't be wanting to answer "should it be punished", they'd just want to say "I want X, give it to me" over and over. There's no value in that sort of catharsis when players don't have any practical control over Lists.

**AxleTheRed** 2011-05-19, 02:18

Yeah ! Too many people think that Solemn Warning can negate any summoning, and most of them are really stubborn thinking they know everything. I can't stand !

**AxleTheRed** 2011-05-19, 02:28

Solemn Warning is different from Stardust Dragon.
Solemn Warning negate ONLY and ONLY the ACTIVATION of a Spell/Trap/Effect Monster's Effect.
And a Spell or a Trap has only one timing called ACTIVATION, it is when the Spell/Trap is flipped face-up (from face-down) or Putted from hand to the field. No exception.
So you cannot wait till the 2nd turn of Future Fusion and "Oh yeah ! This is it's activation, I use solemn warning on it !"

**Chico** 2011-05-19, 03:58

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Monster_Reborn

Locked.

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