Tyrant's Temper, Imperial Customs, and Trap Monsters

So i have both Tyrant's Temper and Imperial Customs active... are my Trap Monsters such as Metal Reflect Slime still cannot be destroyed due to Imperial Customs (and their half-Trap Card state), or will they be unaffected by other traps (in this case Imperial Customs) due to Tyrant's Temper (and their half-monster state)?

thanks in advance. please provide source for your answer.

EDIT: here are the scenarios to make it clearer

scenario A:
-I have Tyrant's Temper, Imperial Customs, and Metal Reflect Slime face-up
-Opponent activates Smashing Ground.
-Does Metal Reflect Slime get destroyed?

scenario B:
-I have Tyrant's Temper, Imperial Customs, and Metal Reflect Slime face-up
-Opponent activates Mystical Space Typhoon targetting Metal Reflect Slime.
-Does Metal Reflect Slime get destroyed?

scenario C:
-I have Tyrant's Temper, Imperial Customs, and Metal Reflect Slime face-up
-Opponent activates Raigeki Break targetting Metal Reflect Slime.
-Does Metal Reflect Slime get destroyed?

scenario D:
-I have Tyrant's Temper, Imperial Customs, and Metal Reflect Slime face-up
-Opponent activates Morphtronic Accelarator targetting Metal Reflect Slime.
-Does Metal Reflect Slime get destroyed?

Trap Monsters have double weakness they can be destroyed by cards that destroy Monsters and cards that Destroy Spells...

Scenario A
Metal Reflect Slime Gets destroyed

Scenario B

Continuous Trap cards can't be destroyed by card effects so no Metal Reflect Slime will be unaffected by MST.

Badass_Bunny wrote:Trap Monsters have double weakness they can be destroyed by cards that destroy Monsters and cards that Destroy Spells...

Scenario A
Metal Reflect Slime Gets destroyed

Scenario B
Continuous Trap cards can't be destroyed by card effects so no Metal Reflect Slime will be unaffected by MST.

Is it possible for a card to only affect something partially? For example in the case of Dark Simorgh vs Catastor, even though Dark Simorgh is DARK, catastor will still destroy it because it is still a non-DARK monster due to its secondary WIND attribute. Likewise Tyrant's Temper makes all your monsters unaffected by other Trap Cards. Imperial Customs is a Trap Card so it shouldn't affect Metal Reflect Slime in any way. That's what confuses me.

i added a 3rd and fourth scenario

That's an odd case... MRS if affected on the S/T Zone (while active), it is having the condition of a Continuous Trap; if affected on the Monster Zone (while active), it is having the condition of a Monster. Remember the case with Crystal Beasts; they are still treated as Continuous Spells while on the S/T Zone despite the fact they are monsters.

Your C and D scenarios are good to cover this up. So in your examples:

- If the effect that destroys a card is used on the Monster Zone MRS, then yes it will be destroyed thx to Tyrant's Temper.

- If the effect that destroys a card is used on the S/T Zone MRS, then no it will not be destroyed thx to Imperial Custom.

wait perhaps I got confused, but are you talking about Metal Reflect Slime Trap card or the Monster that comes from it? In 3rd and 4th Scenario

In

Badass_Bunny wrote:but are you talking about Metal Reflect Slime Trap card or the Monster that comes from it?

what the...? huh???

Metal Reflect Slime summons a monster, in 3rd and 4th scenario do Morphtronic Accelerator and Raigeki Break target the Trap card itself or the monster that Metal Reflect Slime Summons

Badass_Bunny wrote:Metal Reflect Slime summons a monster, in 3rd and 4th scenario do Morphtronic Accelerator and Raigeki Break target the Trap card itself or the monster that Metal Reflect Slime Summons

This is what i believe: Trap Monsters when activated occupies the Monster Card Zones PHYSICALLY (you put the card itself on the Monster Card Zone) but technically occupies 1 Spell/Trap Zone at the same time (thus you will have an empty S/T zone that cannot be used). If i target a Trap Monster with MST, i will still be pointing at one card (which is in the Monster Card Zone)... am i missing something?

Trap Monsters Take Place in 1 Spell/Trap Zone and in 1 Monster Zone as such can be destroyed by effects that destroy spells or Traps or by effects that destroy monsters such as Dark Hole.

Following this ruling

Imperial Custom Rulings wrote:"Embodiment of Apophis" is treated as a Trap Card, so while "Imperial Custom" is active, "Embodiment of Apophis" is destroyed neither by battle nor by card effects.[4]

If you have Imperial Custom since your monsters are treated as trap cards also they can't be destroyed by battle or by card effect.

However when you add Tyrant's Temper Into The Mix you get this

Tyran's Temper Rulings wrote:Non-Continuous Trap Cards that were activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will still continue to apply their effects. But a face-up Continuous Trap Card that was activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will not apply its effects.[2]

Following that rule, the effects of Continuous Trap Cards will stop applying, the monsters would be removed from Monster Card zone and Trap Cards would stay on the field Meaninglessly.


I apologize for my mistake I didn't quite understand your question or what you were trying to say and to be quite frankly I didn't know the rulings about Trap monsters precisely as good as I know them now after checking...

Badass_Bunny wrote:

Tyran's Temper Rulings wrote:Non-Continuous Trap Cards that were activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will still continue to apply their effects. But a face-up Continuous Trap Card that was activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will not apply its effects.[2]

Following that rule, the effects of Continuous Trap Cards will stop applying, the monsters would be removed from Monster Card zone and Trap Cards would stay on the field Meaninglessly.

When it said "will not apply its effects", it meant will not apply its effect on monsters, not the Continuous Trap Card itself. Trap Monsters does not affect any monster so its effect should still apply.

ex. Kunai with Chain will no longer give a monster +500 ATK boost after Tyrant's Temper is activated

Now if we follow that ruling, supposedly activating Tyrant's Temper WILL STOP Imperial Customs from applying, then that means the Trap Monsters can now be destroyed by cards like MST. That's the question: Does Tyrant's Temper completely stop all of Imperial Custom's effects (including protection of continuous traps)? If that's the case then Imperial Custom should ALSO stop applying on regular continuous trap cards like Wall of Revealing Light.

Badass_Bunny wrote:I apologize for my mistake I didn't quite understand your question or what you were trying to say and to be quite frankly I didn't know the rulings about Trap monsters precisely as good as I know them now after checking...

all cool.. lets keep this open and wait for other Ruling Scrubbies opinion. i appreciate your effort in looking into this.

Badass_Bunny wrote:Metal Reflect Slime summons a monster, in 3rd and 4th scenario do Morphtronic Accelerator and Raigeki Break target the Trap card itself or the monster that Metal Reflect Slime Summons

that doesn't matter, according to that ruling (even if prev official) :

If an effect that destroys Trap Cards is used against “Embodiment of Apophis”, you can use “Fake Trap” to prevent it from being destroyed. When preventing the destruction of “Embodiment of Apophis”, you must be using a card of the appropriate type. You cannot use “My Body as a Shield” to rescue it from “Heavy Storm”. You cannot use “Fake Trap” to rescue it from “Raigeki”. You can use “Riryoku Field” when “Embodiment of Apophis” is targeted by “Snatch Steal”, but not when it’s targeted by “Mystical Space Typhoon”. You can use any of these effects to protect “Embodiment of Apophis” from “Raigeki Break” because “Raigeki Break” can destroy a Monster card or a Trap Card.

What this ruling (visually confirmed by wc11 btw) tells us is, that the trap monster is not split in 2 parts, the trap is just summoned to the monster zone but prevents the s/t zone it was placed bevore from being used. So it is 1 card, 1 part, and not 2 parts which are differed. Even if you play mst, you actually target that trap in the monster zone with it then. And since reigeki break can destroy both, s/t and monsters you also can use any card, one that safes s/t or one that saves monsters, to negate it. (edit: and btw, right, temper does nothing to trap monsters, they don't affect themselves or something like that, as explained: they are only 1 card)

That it is only 1 card also perfectly explains why it can't be destroyed by battle or card effects that destroy monsters. Else custom would only safe the "s/t part" but not the "monster part".

So, in that scenery here:
Trap monsters are also threated as monsters. Since monsters can't be affected by traps trap monsters are simply no longer affected by custom. At all. Even mst should be able to destroy them then.

A: Destroyed
B: Destroyed
C: Not affected by traps
D: Destroyed

I don't see how it won't be destroyed since it's not affected by Imperial Custom anymore.

Trap monsters share their properties as a trap and as a monster, thus they have both while active on the field

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Tyrant's Temper will reduce Trap Monsters to mere meaningless traps. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I did...

Badass_Bunny wrote:I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Tyrant's Temper will reduce Trap Monsters to mere meaningless traps. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I did...

trust me, you didn't. Either that or that was a completly unrelyable source.

Decree/Jinzo does that to them. That is because they negate them, and once negated they stay in the s/t zone meaningless forever.

Not a bad source I just mixed it up, anyway yes my bad I got it all wrong...

One more thing about this ruling:

Tyran's Temper Rulings wrote:Non-Continuous Trap Cards that were activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will still continue to apply their effects. But a face-up Continuous Trap Card that was activated before "Tyrant's Temper"'s activation will not apply its effects.[2]

does this mean if I activate Imperial Custom (after) while i have Tyrant's Temper face-up, Imperial Custom will be applied and protect my Trap Monsters from destruction?

of course not... why would you think so^^

that ruling only says
- that cards like kunai with chain (when already equipped) still affect the monster
- that continous trap cards wont affect the monster anymore the moment temper resolves

that monsters are not affected by trap that resolve after tempers resolution is already sure due to its card text. They are not affected by traps as long as temper is face up.

dest wrote:of course not... why would you think so^^

that ruling only says
- that cards like kunai with chain (when already equipped) still affect the monster
- that continous trap cards wont affect the monster anymore the moment temper resolves

that monsters are not affected by trap that resolve after tempers resolution is already sure due to its card text. They are not affected by traps as long as temper is face up.

the "before" word made me think so, so i assumed "after" would do otherwise