God

Keep this topic mature. As in any debate you can voice your opinion but no forcing on others.

I believe in him. I am a Christian.

I think before I post anything else I will let others voice their opinions first. I need to know how others see everything.

Proof God does exist: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

Proof God doesn't exist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQRG-xsw3kM&feature=plcp&context=C388439bUDOEgsToPDskJ5hjAnUhFgws9yBoodGKoh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtxnIkzros&feature=plcp&context=C3d8cdaeUDOEgsToPDskLqlW0ShggOUMrYSpQKahh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR72G8dRh4k&feature=plcp&context=C34e7845UDOEgsToPDskLABsXlmiGBxOHDRwhUwLKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NviLvMRbGoE&feature=plcp&context=C37337c7UDOEgsToPDskJ02JPDnFzIb3OvMezBNP01

I personally do not. But I don't have a reason or anything, and I have nothing against people who do, I just don't like people who condemn people because of who they are, and there are some extremist (As in every religion) that do this. I am not saying every Christian does, just a small amount. As long as no one's trying to shove anything down my throat I'm good.

I do have many Christian friends, and we all get along fine. I have also done work for churches. I have nothing against this religion or any one who follows it. but I like for people to see my side and not say I'm horribly wrong and will burn in Hell.

As for my stands, I don't believe in God or any other higher being because I want to feel responsible for my life, and everything I have to offer. i don't want a destiny, I just want to be me. And I also don't want to feel horrible for doing things that are Sins, if that makes sense.

but, I have high respects for you DRiku. It takes guts to bring up Religion in a community. Kudos.

I dont really belive in a god , i belive more in reincarnation that when you die, you become sometthing else bepending on your actions in the prevous life. Ihave nothing angest any other person Religon or belives, plus most of my family are Christian anyho.

i dont believe in god. The christian God and any other gods where born from the ignorance of the people who didnt knew how to explain life phenoms. Now science give the answers to almost every question in life, but there is still others that didnt get an answer, thats why god still lives in people thoughts and associate him with anything that couldn be explain.

Thanks to Hunter_13, i'd request that this thread gets locked.

I can tell this is going to get out of hand.

Locked

AndelStrife wrote:I personally do not. But I don't have a reason or anything, and I have nothing against people who do, I just don't like people who condemn people because of who they are, and there are some extremist (As in every religion) that do this. I am not saying every Christian does, just a small amount. As long as no one's trying to shove anything down my throat I'm good.

I do have many Christian friends, and we all get along fine. I have also done work for churches. I have nothing against this religion or any one who follows it. but I like for people to see my side and not say I'm horribly wrong and will burn in Hell.

As for my stands, I don't believe in God or any other higher being because I want to feel responsible for my life, and everything I have to offer. i don't want a destiny, I just want to be me. And I also don't want to feel horrible for doing things that are Sins, if that makes sense.

but, I have high respects for you DRiku. It takes guts to bring up Religion in a community. Kudos.

Thanks! People have no right in condemning people to Hell. Our responsibility is to give love and compassion to others and teach God to others. This is not the same as forcing. We are not supposed to force anyone because that is not how it works. You have to accept him yourself. We only are supposed to show the door.

I believe because after I learned about him and chose to be saved I had a feeling that you can't explain unless your experience it yourself. Also, when my grandfather was dying he said he saw angels coming to get him. He had Alzheimer but he was in the most right mind before he died. This all can't be just chemical reactions to cope with death.

Hunter_13 wrote:i dont believe in god. The christian God and any other gods where born from the ignorance of the people who didnt knew how to explain life phenoms. Now science give the answers to almost every question in life, but there is still others that didnt get an answer, thats why god still lives in people thoughts and associate him with anything that couldn be explain.

You know plenty of scientist also believe in God right? How is it imagined that most of them are atheist? People sure do spend a lot of time trying to play God for not believing him him.

I'm a Wiccan, so I believe in a God and a Goddess,
^^

I believe there is a god. We just don't know what it/he/she is.

Ok since you unlocked it giving them permission to post their shit bound for chaos.. here I go -

Atheist are the most ignorant people to walk this planet. You say we evolved from monkeys,but why do monkeys STILL exist then? Shouldn't they have evolved too? And why don't humans have tails and swing from tree to tree? Fucking Idiots! Atheists say that there was a 'Big Bang' that created the Earth and the Universe and all things!? Well what created this Big Bang!? And what existed before the big bang?? Ask that to any atheist and they will be dumb founded! Because God created anything before and after this big bang.. Then God created the Earth in just six days! Praise to the all mighty God.

Agreed 100% with Lethal

Read the bible and you will find the anwsers you need and if really god exists

DarkRiku wrote:

AndelStrife wrote:I personally do not. But I don't have a reason or anything, and I have nothing against people who do, I just don't like people who condemn people because of who they are, and there are some extremist (As in every religion) that do this. I am not saying every Christian does, just a small amount. As long as no one's trying to shove anything down my throat I'm good.

I do have many Christian friends, and we all get along fine. I have also done work for churches. I have nothing against this religion or any one who follows it. but I like for people to see my side and not say I'm horribly wrong and will burn in Hell.

As for my stands, I don't believe in God or any other higher being because I want to feel responsible for my life, and everything I have to offer. i don't want a destiny, I just want to be me. And I also don't want to feel horrible for doing things that are Sins, if that makes sense.

but, I have high respects for you DRiku. It takes guts to bring up Religion in a community. Kudos.

Thanks! People have no right in condemning people to Hell. Our responsibility is to give love and compassion to others and teach God to others. This is not the same as forcing. We are not supposed to force anyone because that is not how it works. You have to accept him yourself. We only are supposed to show the door.

I believe because after I learned about him and chose to be saved I had a feeling that you can't explain unless your experience it yourself. Also, when my grandfather was dying he said he saw angels coming to get him. He had Alzheimer but he was in the most right mind before he died. This all can't be just chemical reactions to cope with death.

Hunter_13 wrote:i dont believe in god. The christian God and any other gods where born from the ignorance of the people who didnt knew how to explain life phenoms. Now science give the answers to almost every question in life, but there is still others that didnt get an answer, thats why god still lives in people thoughts and associate him with anything that couldn be explain.

You know plenty of scientist also believe in God right? How is it imagined that most of them are atheist? People sure do spend a lot of time trying to play God for not believing him him.

Yea I can agree with most of what you're saying. We have no right telling them to go to hell - cause God will take care of them. All we can do is try to teach them, and hope God opens up their heart to the light.

Hunter23 wrote:Read the bible and you will find the anwsers you need and if really god exists

All of the scriptures prove that God exists. But over time man has corrupted them and changed it to his liking. - And that's what the holy Quran is for, perfection of all the past scriptures and it will NEVER be tampered with.

I believe in God, and there is a multitude of reasons for that. Lemme list them out for you:

1. 3 years ago, my little brother got a potentially fatal disease which rendered his immune system literally useless. We all prayed for him, and 2 years later, he came back unmarked by the events.
2. A lot of my wants, not needs, have been answered weirdly in such a manner that both myself and the persons involved directly into them have not been affected very much. Present case: this week. We skipped French class, which we have a very harsh teacher at, yet the second time we met in class, she didn't say anything, the class lasted half as much as it should, so we went home earlier, and I got an A+. Also, since my parents would leave home until Monday, they were planning to leave a family friend to stay with me so he could finish up the house building project we have. Oddly enough, he has to go to Bucharest during their stay. Coincidence? I think NOT.

I believe. Nothing makes sense if there is no God.

Lethal Interjection wrote:Ok since you unlocked it giving them permission to post their shit bound for chaos.. here I go -

Atheist are the most ignorant people to walk this planet. You say we evolved from monkeys,but why do monkeys STILL exist then? Shouldn't they have evolved too? And why don't humans have tails and swing from tree to tree? Fucking Idiots! Atheists say that there was a 'Big Bang' that created the Earth and the Universe and all things!? Well what created this Big Bang!? And what existed before the big bang?? Ask that to any atheist and they will be dumb founded! Because God created anything before and after this big bang.. Then God created the Earth in just six days! Praise to the all mighty God.

Seriously not sure if trolling or just really stupid

Asking why monkeys exist if we evolved from them shows a complete lack of understanding for what evolution is. Apes today are far distant cousins essentially of ours. We share very similar traits and most likely evolved from some form of primate which, based off the rules of evolution, rid itself of many unnecessary attributes and over time became what we are today.

Humans don't have tails, because as evolution dictates, we have no need for such things so over time they become extinct within the population.

If science cannot provide the answer at this point in time to whether or not the big bang truly occurred or, if it did, what caused it, that does not mean that by default Religion's theories are correct. Those are based off just as little fact so I find it highly ironic for you to condemn science for not being able to provide an answer yet.

Lets try to keep this conversation logical rather than pure emotional.

The only problem I have with evolution is the fact how do you create a living creature out of nothing? When Earth was created how does non-living stuff turn into something that is living? Doesn't sound logical. You can't make something living out of non-living materials.

i believe, if i didn't i would be dead right now

DarkRiku wrote:The only problem I have with evolution is the fact how do you create a living creature out of nothing?

Christians are the ones that believe living creatures come from nothing.

When Earth was created how does non-living stuff turn into something that is living? Doesn't sound logical.

To summarize the current best theories that explain this issue, under the right conditions those non-ling components can build a living thing.

You can't make something living out of non-living materials.

Says who? Individually every atom that makes us is a non-living thing, so since we are living things we can say we are actually made from non-living things. This is true regardless whether God exists or not.

Nevertheless, the overall idea that you're obviously addressing is how we can just exist without needing to be made by an intentional method, i.e. by the vision of a deity. However, I don't see you questioning how God can just exist without needing to be intentionally made. Also, you give no premise on why the Universe and everything that makes it up can't exist without the help of a deity. You're automatically assuming that it is necessary when there is no reason to believe that's the case. If we can assume that God, a being that is greater than the Universe, can just exist then why can't something lesser than that just exist? Now that doesn't sound logical.

Since Joker is so smart, WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG!?!?!?!

HOW DO MAGNETS WORK?

Axel VIII wrote:Since Joker is so smart, WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG!?!?!?!

I should just ignore your smartass comments, but since there is merit in answering them in a way I will at least take them a little seriously.

At the moment the agreed consensus is that the Universe was at a singularity with particles going wild colliding into each other and such as that's what particles tend to do. They then collided in such a way to force the Universe to rapidly expand. Of course, as far as I know the Big Bang Theory itself isn't 100% confirmed, but even so that doesn't warrant thinking that God did everything.

HOW DO MAGNETS WORK?

Magnets produce electrical currents that cause magnetic things like various metals to be pulled towards the magnets.

yeah but HOW does it couse the currents?

and btw the big bang one...meh..

nsanejokr wrote:

Axel VIII wrote:Since Joker is so smart, WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BIG BANG!?!?!?!

I should just ignore your smartass comments, but since there is merit in answering them in a way I will at least take them a little seriously.

At the moment the agreed consensus is that the Universe was at a singularity with particles going wild colliding into each other and such as that's what particles tend to do. They then collided in such a way to force the Universe to rapidly expand. Of course, as far as I know the Big Bang Theory itself isn't 100% confirmed, but even so that doesn't warrant thinking that God did everything.

HOW DO MAGNETS WORK?

Magnets produce electrical currents that cause magnetic things like various metals to be pulled towards the magnets.

Going by the Big Bang Theory and what you just said then something existed before the Big Bang. Even particles are something. That would make that theory flawed.

I already know where this would be going. So if God exist then what came before him? That is what I would think some people would think. The truth to the matter is no one will be able to answer that.

The only answer I have and no atheist would agree with it is that God is the beginning and the end. He is nothing and everything.

____________________________________________________________

To your previous post.

Are we still discussing logic? Logic is based on the eye of the beholder. What one finds logical another finds illogical.

Yeah! Sorry! Atoms do make up the universe. I don't believe by chance they just decided to come together to make life. Better?

Axel VIII wrote:yeah but HOW does it couse the currents?

and btw the big bang one...meh..

It is going to take more than one liners for a debate.

Well maybe I'm different than everyone else.
I've came close to death 4 times now. Not once have I felt something more than pain and being cured. However, my curing came from medicine, not anything else. I've never felt the need for a higher being, but I'm not closed minded about it. If something was to happen to make me change my mind, I'd be ok with it, and not fight it. I'm just at a point in my life where I don't care about all of that. I'm more concerned with college and friends and family to worry about what happens after I'm dead.
So maybe someday my vote will change, but as of now, its as it is.

I do envy Christians sometimes though. They seem to have hope in the hell hole of situations. So I don't think anyone's a fool for their beliefs, I just don't need mine to change atm.

Yay, I was wishing for a challenge...
I am not a fan of religion. God as an entity bothers me. We have theories and proofs explaining away the Universe, but for the religious, the answer is always "God did it." Where is the fun in that? As for the Big Bang, what is more likely: eternal non-sentient energy that exists simply because it exists binding together into matter and creating the cosmos, or a sentient omnipotent omniscient omnibenevolent male wrathful jealous eternal omnipresent entity that exists simply because he exists and has nothing better to do than create all of existence and torture humans throughout countless generations in an ultimately futile struggle for no reason? On second thought, which is better?

DarkRiku wrote:Going by the Big Bang Theory and what you just said then something existed before the Big Bang. Even particles are something. That would make that theory flawed.

No it wouldn't. Big Bang Theory only explains how the Universe expanded to the point it is now, not that it literally created everything in existence.

I already know where this would be going. So if God exist then what came before him? That is what I would think some people would think. The truth to the matter is no one will be able to answer that.

The only answer I have and no atheist would agree with it is that God is the beginning and the end. He is nothing and everything.

You do not have the authority to make such a conclusion, or at least not without some argument, and you aren't providing any real argument.

Are we still discussing logic? Logic is based on the eye of the beholder. What one finds logical another finds illogical.

At this point in time, I am being cooled by a fan powered by magic, miniature lions. I can understand that this is the case, because the pink triceratops told me so, and everyone knows the pink triceratops never lies.

So, if what is logical is merely subjective that is actually a logical argument about how my fan is being powered.

Yeah! Sorry! Atoms do make up the universe. I don't believe by chance they just decided to come together to make life. Better?

They didn't just decide to come together; it just happened. What reasons are there to even assume otherwise? You have made no argument to say they can't come together without a deity's help.

The only reason that I have seen you have given to believe in a deity is based on certain experiences you've had. Why should these experiences be caused by the force of a deity. Note, I am not suggesting that you didn't truly experience something. However, a certain feeling can be caused by multiple things. For instance, physical pain can be felt through actual damage, but it can also be felt without damage. In order to figure out if there is damage one would have to be able to rationally rule out certain possibilities.

So it all comes down to basically one thing, what reason is there to rule out that these experiences aren't caused by means other than some holy means?

Wow, with Joker here, it is like there are two of me. Dreams do come true...

ok so how do magnets make that energy to attract metals?

Axel VIII wrote:ok so how do magnets make that energy to attract metals?

Well, the magnetism polarizes ferrous metals. Also, Axel, we do not know everything, so this train of thought goes nowhere.

i wanna know how do magnets do it to attract metals... it MUST be magic!! i knew magic existed!! i mean i knew magic EXISTS!! or it could be aliens. ALIENS!!

Look, people here (namely me) are actually trying to have an actual discussion and not babbling about stupid bullshit. So with all do respect I'd appreciate it if you would quit acting like a troll.

-____________________________- thanks.... now i will never know how they work

I'm religious, leaving it at that. If people wanna take it out of context, I don't care. Not my problem if they do.

papasmurfkof wrote:

Lethal Interjection wrote:Ok since you unlocked it giving them permission to post their shit bound for chaos.. here I go -

Atheist are the most ignorant people to walk this planet. You say we evolved from monkeys,but why do monkeys STILL exist then? Shouldn't they have evolved too? And why don't humans have tails and swing from tree to tree? Fucking Idiots! Atheists say that there was a 'Big Bang' that created the Earth and the Universe and all things!? Well what created this Big Bang!? And what existed before the big bang?? Ask that to any atheist and they will be dumb founded! Because God created anything before and after this big bang.. Then God created the Earth in just six days! Praise to the all mighty God.

Seriously not sure if trolling or just really stupid

Asking why monkeys exist if we evolved from them shows a complete lack of understanding for what evolution is. Apes today are far distant cousins essentially of ours. We share very similar traits and most likely evolved from some form of primate which, based off the rules of evolution, rid itself of many unnecessary attributes and over time became what we are today.

Humans don't have tails, because as evolution dictates, we have no need for such things so over time they become extinct within the population.

If science cannot provide the answer at this point in time to whether or not the big bang truly occurred or, if it did, what caused it, that does not mean that by default Religion's theories are correct. Those are based off just as little fact so I find it highly ironic for you to condemn science for not being able to provide an answer yet.

Lets try to keep this conversation logical rather than pure emotional.

just to complement. Lethal asked for the topic to be closed because i made a comment that he/she didnt like it, almost saying that my comment was so rude to her that /he/she couldn take it ( a comment that i think is completely normal and i tried to keep it logical and mature). But ironically, he/she then made a comment that i think its like the one i made before, so i have to ask for this topic to be closed??, nahh, i tolerate other peoples toughts, and like "papasmurf" i think you are only trolling or being mean (for no saying the other word for respect).
Thats what pissed me off the religious people, they cant take comments against god cuz its almost like we are insulting them. (my respects to darkiru who is taking this arguin with maturity.)

I do respect if anyone here believes or not in god, but i dont believe in him, and i think what i posted in my first post..people always need to believe in something bigger than them to take out their worries, thats why people created god...

Hunter_13 wrote:
just to complement. Lethal asked for the topic to be closed because i made a comment that he/she didnt like it, almost saying that my comment was so rude to her that /he/she couldn take it ( a comment that i think is completely normal and i tried to keep it logical and mature). But ironically, he/she then made a comment that i think its like the one i made before, so i have to ask for this topic to be closed??, nahh, i tolerate other peoples toughts, and like "papasmurf" i think you are only trolling or being mean (for no saying the other word for respect).
Thats what pissed me off the religious people, they cant take comments against god cuz its almost like we are insulting them. (my respects to darkiru who is taking this arguin with maturity.)

I do respect if anyone here believes or not in god, but i dont believe in him, and i think what i posted in my first post..people always need to believe in something bigger than them to take out their worries, thats why people created god...

Any talk about religion on the internet leads to disaster. This should have been closed from the very first post.

KaousFaustXIII wrote:

Hunter_13 wrote:
just to complement. Lethal asked for the topic to be closed because i made a comment that he/she didnt like it, almost saying that my comment was so rude to her that /he/she couldn take it ( a comment that i think is completely normal and i tried to keep it logical and mature). But ironically, he/she then made a comment that i think its like the one i made before, so i have to ask for this topic to be closed??, nahh, i tolerate other peoples toughts, and like "papasmurf" i think you are only trolling or being mean (for no saying the other word for respect).
Thats what pissed me off the religious people, they cant take comments against god cuz its almost like we are insulting them. (my respects to darkiru who is taking this arguin with maturity.)

I do respect if anyone here believes or not in god, but i dont believe in him, and i think what i posted in my first post..people always need to believe in something bigger than them to take out their worries, thats why people created god...

Any talk about religion on the internet leads to disaster. This should have been closed from the very first post.

Yeah, thats common. But i think also that it depends on the people who participates, like i said, darkriku is the creator of the topic, he believes in god, and is taking this with maturity. I think this is simple. If a person cant take comments against god or is very emotional about this kind of topics, its better to stay away. Not only in a religion disscusion but in almost any disscusion, if people want to argue they must be able to take any comments and take them for what they are, just opinions.

True that, but judging by the nature of this site, i strongly doubt we would be able to keep a matured discussion about this rather sensitive topic. I won't state my stand on this as i fear i might influence those people who thinks otherwise. Some people needs God, some people don't, it should be left at that.

KaousFaustXIII wrote: Some people needs God, some people don't, it should be left at that.

i like your sentence

With the exception of Axel, sorry man but you did go out of line, the maturity has been pretty good. I admit I am not some super genius or debater but I really wanted to know who believes him God and who doesn't. I may not like what some people posted but I am not going to put them down for it. People really do like their opinions heard. I don't think the thread will get out of hand.

DarkRiku wrote:With the exception of Axel, sorry man but you did go out of line, the maturity has been pretty good. I admit I am not some super genius or debater but I really wanted to know who believes him God and who doesn't. I may not like what some people posted but I am not going to put them down for it. People really do like their opinions heard. I don't think the thread will get out of hand.

Potus Mat, some super genius or debater here. I agree.

Oh great a religion topic. I already know how this is gonna go.
All I'm gonna say is I dunno how God is any different from Santa or the Tooth Fairy, but to each his own I guess.

nsanejokr wrote:

DarkRiku wrote:Going by the Big Bang Theory and what you just said then something existed before the Big Bang. Even particles are something. That would make that theory flawed.

No it wouldn't. Big Bang Theory only explains how the Universe expanded to the point it is now, not that it literally created everything in existence.

I already know where this would be going. So if God exist then what came before him? That is what I would think some people would think. The truth to the matter is no one will be able to answer that.

The only answer I have and no atheist would agree with it is that God is the beginning and the end. He is nothing and everything.

You do not have the authority to make such a conclusion, or at least not without some argument, and you aren't providing any real argument.

Are we still discussing logic? Logic is based on the eye of the beholder. What one finds logical another finds illogical.

At this point in time, I am being cooled by a fan powered by magic, miniature lions. I can understand that this is the case, because the pink triceratops told me so, and everyone knows the pink triceratops never lies.

So, if what is logical is merely subjective that is actually a logical argument about how my fan is being powered.

Yeah! Sorry! Atoms do make up the universe. I don't believe by chance they just decided to come together to make life. Better?

They didn't just decide to come together; it just happened. What reasons are there to even assume otherwise? You have made no argument to say they can't come together without a deity's help.

The only reason that I have seen you have given to believe in a deity is based on certain experiences you've had. Why should these experiences be caused by the force of a deity. Note, I am not suggesting that you didn't truly experience something. However, a certain feeling can be caused by multiple things. For instance, physical pain can be felt through actual damage, but it can also be felt without damage. In order to figure out if there is damage one would have to be able to rationally rule out certain possibilities.

So it all comes down to basically one thing, what reason is there to rule out that these experiences aren't caused by means other than some holy means?

Then what created existence?
I was not trying to establish an authority. Atheist don't want to believe in him because that would establish we don't have control over our lives. Pick me or burn. He does give us the power of choice. Everyone blames God. Why does the Devil never get blamed? Of course you got to believe in all this for it to matter.
Stuff just doesn't happen. Something has to happen. Cause and effect I am talking about in this situation.
Yes! It is an experience I felt for accepting him as my savoir. I am sorry it is something that can't be explained. It goes by person to person I guess.

DarkRiku wrote:Then what created existence?

Again, why should we assume something just can't exist? You're already doing it with God.

I was not trying to establish an authority. Atheist don't want to believe in him because that would establish we don't have control over our lives. Pick me or burn. He does give us the power of choice. Everyone blames God. Why does the Devil never get blamed? Of course you got to believe in all this for it to matter.

I meant authority as in the right to make the claims you're making, not in terms of an actual being.

Nevertheless, who's to say atheists don't won't to believe in a deity on the basis that it would mean that we would lose control over our lives? After all, there's still the deist conception of a deity, and that can allow free will with the right explanation.

Generally, atheists don't believe in a deity on the basis that there is no compelling reason to do so.

Stuff just doesn't happen. Something has to happen. Cause and effect I am talking about in this situation.

There is still cause and effect involved, it's just not through intentional means. To be honest, I only know the Layman terms of most of the theories involving how the Universe went from a singularity to what it is now. However, even if all those theories are wrong it doesn't follow that a deity creating everything is the only answer, because we don't even have the reasoning to establish that the Universe needed to be created in order to exist rather than it just existing with all the chaotic particles inside it.

Yes! It is an experience I felt for accepting him as my savoir. I am sorry it is something that can't be explained. It goes by person to person I guess.

Again, it doesn't automatically follow that those feelings were caused by divine means. It's still a logical possibility that the feeling was caused by the idea that you were now a part of something huge, something that is even larger than this Universe. It's not the only time brains do weird things like this; if an anxiety sufferer thinks about being in pain from cancer they may feel such a pain even though they don't have cancer.

I am going to edit my OP and put this link in it.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

If you have a link to debate with what I put up then I will add it to my OP as well to keep things on equal terms.

Since this is a debate we can use outside sources as well. We don't have to be the only debaters in this thread.

All I will say is: You are all being watched.

i really dont think a question like this should be on the dn fourums thats all i will say...

A religious debate... lovely. That'll definitely go down well here. I generally avoid these kinds of debates, but because I'm here and bored I'll give you guys the benefit of my opinion, which is based on logic.

1) Nobody disagrees with Evolution for scientific reasons. Also, the people who criticise Evolution never understand it. They usually don't understand Relativity or Quantum Mechanics either, but leave those subjects alone because they're not a direct contradiction of Genesis 1 and 2. Ironically, Evolution is THE most well-proven theory in science - yes, even more than Gravity. Nobody knows exactly what causes objects to fall.

2) Asking what occurred "before" the Big Bang implies some concept of time at that point. Current theories involving singularities suggest that time becomes indistinguishable from space at that point. Effectively, our universe never "started", it instead changed from a static 4-D universe into a dynamic 3-D one. This rules out both the necessity, and the possibility, of the universe being created. God could still cause the events in the universe to occur, and be the reason it all exists, but he would be doing it equally at every point in space and time. It's difficult to grasp, but it might help if you go read up on the Aborigine concept of Dreamtime.

3) God may or may not exist. There is no way to confirm or deny his existence, even hypothetically, unless he pokes his head down from the clouds. It is my belief that the world doesn't need God, either for science or morality. Science explains things just fine without a supernatural agent. And morality? Quite apart from the fact that Yahweh in the Bible condones and commits every kind of evil act imaginable, and is thus not a standard of good behaviour, it seems that people should do good things because they're good people and not because some higher power tells them to.

If you want to believe in God, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Heart of the Cards, then go right ahead. There is nothing wrong with drawing comfort and inspiration from such a source, and Faith is hardly a negative character trait. BLIND Faith is, however, as it causes irrationality, paranoia, stupidity and in some cases violent/psychopathic behaviour.

And am I the only person curious to see what God would look like if he was made into a card?

My thoughts:

I myself am religious, but I also see where athiests come from. One of the arguments against them I see is "Where did the energy from the big bang originate?". The problem with the question it can be turned right back at us and ask "Where did your God originate?". There is no definitive answer for either of these, so the entire argument in this area is moot from both sides.

And evolution as I see it can work with religion. God made creatures and all things, but what creatures did he make? I've seen an argument about how dinosaurs weren't in the bible so they couldn't have existed, but what about giraffes or parakeets? My idea is that god made basic forms of life and continued from there (birds and fish, then land animals, then man). For all we know he could've made the creature that split off different evolutionary paths into man and ape.

I've accepted that my entire religion may indeed be a bunch of bull and I may not have any reason to exist outside of taking up space here, but I choose to believe what I believe. I will make attempts at getting others to believe as well, but I am not the kind of person who says "do this or I hurt you", that kind of thinking is blasphemy imo.

@Occultdude17: You're post was quite a good read Especially the part about morality. I don't understand why people think others outside of their religion are evil at all.