priority of ignition and through priority negating? XDumm lol

ok so I summon dark grephyr my opponent responds with bottomless trap hole, i retain my priority to use its effect.

(my opponent says I can't do that because grephyr would be "destroyed" I think he may have gotten this from lyla's ruling where it has to be in defense for it to go through, w/e)

so thats my first question, just to clarify that, even though i am pretty use i can use the priority still...

Anyhow next part of it. Assuming my priority went through. I discard jinzo from my hand to send jinzo returner to the grave, which would then special jinzo. Would special summoning jinzo this way negate the bottomless? chain wise makes sense that it would.

However the ruling for returner is that returner starts a new chain, and thats where i get confused. I know you can now activate new stuff withen this new chain... but i don't know where it fits in the original chain. o_O;

Like does the new chain only resolve after the entire first chain is already dealt with? or does it create a chain within a chain? o_O I am so confused...

Ok it seems you are a little confused about two things. I'll break it down as simply as I can for you.

First of all priority:
You need to get into the habit of remembering that the turn player retains priority in every phase. This means that if you want to activate Grephers effect, you need to do so before your opponent can actually activate bottomless (since you have priority to do so). Your opponent should be asking if you wish to do so before responding so that is his fault if he is rushing.

In doing so this is what will happen:

Chain Link 1: Dark Grepher (discarding Jinzo as an activation cost)
Chain Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole
--- Chain will resolve backwards ---
Chain Link 2: Bottomless Trap Hole destroys and removes Dark Grepher from play.
Chain Link 1: You select 1 DARK monster (in this case Jinzo Returner) and send it to the Graveyard.

A new chain will begin:

Chain Link 1: Jinzo Returner.

Your opponent can respond accordingly, Jinzo will then be summoned as the chain resolves (assuming Jinzo Returner is not negated).

It is important to realize that effects do not resolve straight away, when chains are formed they need to be built and resolved properly. So in this case, Jinzo does not make it to the field before Bottomless can resolve.

Well said Detonator. Plus Majora makes you look extra intimidating.

I understand how it works. ^_^ You have to make sure the greph is successfully summoned and not negated though. Then you say I use priority. Though people do tend to rush and call bottomless or torrential, and that is their fault, wording is everything and against sharks it is always best to be clear...

For this case I said i summon greph ok? and waited for a response there was none so I activated greph's effect and had both jinzo and returner in the grave before he said he was activating bottomless trap hole. In which I said I call prio on greph... it has priority it goes through before bottomless...

I guess I should start being more clear by saying both I summon X, and I call prio, response? to prevent further issues. XD Declare both at once instead of doing it in stages. Best way I can think of to make it clear and avoid drama.



Anyhow I was more wondering on how it would resolve with jinzo, it never even got to that point anyhow, but its a ruling that needs to be sorted for future matches =3 Thank you very much for clearing it up for me ^_^ I completely understand it now. =D

It is also important to notice that a trigger-effect is a spell-speed 1. Thus, it can't start their chain directly following the current chain,hence they'll create a new separate chain after the current chain resolve, as you see on that returner example.

the only time when trigger effect would be chaining to another effect is when the earlier effect is also a trigger effect that was activated in response to the same event.(i.e: Dandy+BRD, Blizzard+B.Whirlwind, etc)

No, Jinzo - Returner miss the timing; you will not special summon Jinzo

why should it miss the timing? Sending it from the deck to the grave was the last thing to happen. "Shuffleing" doesn't count as an action that could cause effects to miss timings...

Well I'm not sure to be honest but I think I'll support Key here since the last thing to happen wasn't Jinzo Returner being sent to grave but Grepher being removed from play.

It resolves backwards, so grepher being destroyed happens before its effect. So again why would it miss the timing? It is the last thing to happen in that chain.

It would not miss the timing Key... Please read my post, the last thing to happen is returner being sent to the graveyard.

Edit: I forgot to capitalize the K in Key because I'm a troll =D

Of course I know that Dx
Somehow the wording of the OP confused me and I thought Bottomless resolved as chain link 1

=__=

I'll lock this to prevent further confusion ;O

Locked.