How does "ALLY OF JUSTICE CATASTOR" 's effect work?

"ALLY OF JUSTICE CATASTOR"
Description: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters
If this card attacks or is attacked by a non-DARK monster, destroy that monster at the start of the Damage Step (without damage calculation).

So the effect of "ALLY OF JUSTICE CATASTOR" is : If this card attacks or is attacked by a non-DARK monster, destroy that monster at the start of the Damage Step (without damage calculation).

Based on the rulings from "http://yugioh.wikia.com," it says that (From the first two bullets of the "TCG" column) "-The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up.[1]
-If “Ally of Justice Catastor” or the opponent’s monster is face-down at the start of the Damage Step, the effect of “Ally of Justice Catastor” will not apply.[1]"

(You can find this at http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor )
So with this information, isn't it a bit contradicting? To know that "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" But the second bullet says that "If “Ally of Justice Catastor” or the opponent’s monster is face-down at the start of the Damage Step, the effect of “Ally of Justice Catastor” will not apply." So with this, it is indicating that If "ALLY OF JUSTICE CATASTOR" attacks a face-down monster, it's effect will active at the very start of the Damage Step before Face-down Monster are flipped face-up, but it's effect WILL NOT APPLY since the face-down monster is face-down? Correct?

I.g. "ALLY OF JUSTICE CATASTOR" attacks a face-down "BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER- ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING" (Who was "BOOK OF MOON" last turn). With this, the effect of "A.O.J.C." will not apply, resulting with "B.L.S. E.B." still in the field. This is Correct, based on the rulings in yugioh.wikia.com?

Please, tell me the results based on the scenarios belowed.

1.) "A.O.J.C." Face-up attacks a "D.D. WARRIOR LADY" Face-Down. Result: ?

2.) "A.O.J.C." Face-up attacks a "RYKO, LIGHTSWORN HUNTER" Face-Down. Result: ?

3.) "A.O.J.C." Face-up attacks a "SPIRIT REAPER" Face-Down. Result: ?

And can you guys provide your conclusion with reasoning.

1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

No double posting >:O

TengLee wrote:

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

The Start of the Damage Step is " The start of the Damage Step, flipping the face-down attacked monster face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Breakdown_of_the_Battle_Phase Under the "Damage Step" Column)

So does this mean that the Start of Damage Step is when the attacked monster is flipped-face up?

TengLee wrote:

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

It means that Catastor's effect activates in the first sub-step of the Battle Step, right after you declare your attack target. That is why when you attack a face down monster, it does not apply its effect to destroy them right away. It has to see the Attribute of the target monster before moving on to the actual battle proper.

Face down monsters flip face up in another sub-step, which is outside of Catastor's limited timeframe. Once a face down monster flips face up, it is already too late for Catastor to do anything else except to go through the rest of the battle phase.

Tsunayoshi wrote:

TengLee wrote:

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

It means that Catastor's effect activates in the first sub-step of the Battle Step, right after you declare your attack target. That is why when you attack a face down monster, it does not apply its effect to destroy them right away. It has to see the Attribute of the target monster before moving on to the actual battle proper.

Face down monsters flip face up in another sub-step, which is outside of Catastor's limited timeframe. Once a face down monster flips face up, it is already too late for Catastor to do anything else except to go through the rest of the battle phase.

But when "A.O.J.C." attacks, he flips the monster face-up during the first-sub step of damage step (this is where you see their attribute) , and it's a light monster. So the question is, Did he attack a non-dark monster? Yes, he did. Then Shouldn't his effect activate right when the monster's attribute is clear (And that is at the first sub-step of damage step) destroying the monster at the start of Damage step? The start of damage step is when you flipped the attacked monster face-up.

O_____O

Catastor would active its effect at sub-step 1 of damage step (start of damage step). This timing happens before sub-step 2 timing. If Catastor battle with a face-down monster, that monster won't be flipped in this sub-step, so Catastor cannot active its effect.

Face-down monster will be flipped at sub-step 2 of damage step (after start of damage step).

So, in short, Catastor would active its effect before the timing when face-down monster (if any) is flipped.

Get that?

tldr;

catastor effect doesn't work on facedown monster

Also, DDWL can use it effect to remove catastor after battle

kangtuji wrote:tldr;

catastor effect doesn't work on facedown monster

Also, DDWL can use it effect to remove catastor after battle

No it cant. The ruling for AOJ Core Destroyer (Effect is the same as Catastor's except it only applies to Lights) is when it attacks into a face up D. D. Warrior Lady, DDWL would be destroyed before the timing for its own effect would come around (After Damage Calculation). Meaning that DDWL can not use its effect to banish Core Destroyer, and by extension of this ruling Catastor.

Well the truth about Catastor is that it's effect activates against face-up monsters before damage calculation. Anything that is face-down however, it doesn't trigger Catastor's effect due to the monster being flipped after the start of the damage step.

So in order to the first poster:
1) DDWL can activate it's effect after damage calculation.
2) Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter's effect can be activated as well.
3) Spirit Reaper is flipped face-up and damage calculation resumes normally regardless if it's attribute was changed by DNA Transplant.

BTW, he was mentioning the situation on face-down monsters, not face-up monsters so comparing AOJ Core Destroyer to this card would be the same as explained. If he'd mentioned face-up monsters then no doubt the effect of Catastor would trigger at the start of the damage step.

Tsunayoshi wrote:

kangtuji wrote:tldr;

catastor effect doesn't work on facedown monster

Also, DDWL can use it effect to remove catastor after battle

No it cant. The ruling for AOJ Core Destroyer (Effect is the same as Catastor's except it only applies to Lights) is when it attacks into a face up D. D. Warrior Lady, DDWL would be destroyed before the timing for its own effect would come around (After Damage Calculation). Meaning that DDWL can not use its effect to banish Core Destroyer, and by extension of this ruling Catastor.

DDWL is free to use her effect if she's attacked while she's face-down by Catastor or Core Destroyer since both of their effects go off before she's flipped up and are not applied if she's face-down.

Guess this is what I get for taking care of this early in the morning. I missed the part about it being face down.

TengLee wrote:

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

No double posting >:O

TengLee wrote:

Tsunayoshi wrote:1 DDWL will be destroyed by Catastor and will not get its effect because you never get to damage calculation.

2 Ryko will not be destroyed by Catastor's effect, and Ryko's effect will activate and resolve as normal for a flip effect after battle.

3 Spirit Reaper will survive as it is not effected by Catastor.

What does it mean when: "The effect or [sic] “Ally of Justice Catastor” activates at the very start of the Damage Step before face-down monsters are flipped face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Ally_of_Justice_Catastor)?

The Start of the Damage Step is " The start of the Damage Step, flipping the face-down attacked monster face-up" (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Breakdown_of_the_Battle_Phase Under the "Damage Step" Column)

So does this mean that the Start of Damage Step is when the attacked monster is flipped-face up?

I don't know how I'd double post? I just clicked the "Quote" icon, and started writing. Didn't know it'll turn out like this. (Do you want me to edit it?)

This question has been resolved, read the other post carefully and you double post again.

TengLee wrote:Quick Question: How do I resolve this question?

You don't do anything to resolve it~
An admin comes along and gives it the resolve mark and locks it.
Just ignore it for a while and it'll be fine~

storyteller wrote:

TengLee wrote:Quick Question: How do I resolve this question?

You don't do anything to resolve it~
An admin comes along and gives it the resolve mark and locks it.
Just ignore it for a while and it'll be fine~

Thank you!