Gallis the Star Beast vs Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo

Basically, all I need to know is if I can activate Gallis' effect while some card effect negates Special Summons, such as Fossil Dyna or Vanity's Fiend.

If so, does my opponent still take the burn damage, even though Gallis cannot be Summoned?

Neither of those negate summons. They prevent them. You cannot attempt a Special Summon while either of them are on the field, even if the Summon would remove them. End of story.

Right, got you.

Question solved.

Miror B. wrote:Neither of those negate summons. They prevent them. You cannot attempt a Special Summon while either of them are on the field, even if the Summon would remove them. End of story.

I don't think "You cannot attempt a Special Summon" is the right wording.
you can still activate cards/effects that may/will special summon a monster(s) but the special summon won't go though.

Fossil Dyna/etc. PREVENT you from active effect that SS. Like if you have no monster in graveyard, can you active Call of the Haunted? No, of course.

Magicknight94 wrote:Fossil Dyna/etc. PREVENT you from active effect that SS. Like if you have no monster in graveyard, can you active Call of the Haunted? No, of course.

under that logic then cards like starlight road or macro cosmos can't be activated while fossil is on the field, because they have special summon effects.

fossil dyna doesn't prevent you from activating card/effects that special summon.
It prevents the special summon itself.

a more closer example of 'cannot' effects is:
if rai-oh is on the field
either player CAN activate 'Charge of the Light Brigade'
paying it's cost, but won't be able to add cards to their hand.

"Effect that SS" = Effect with Madatory SS.

Starlight/Macro has Effect with Optional SS, so they can be actived.

You're deadly wrong, and your example is terrible cause it is an illegal action.
Starlight Road can be activated when Fossil is on field cause it has another effect that is activated when the card is activated. If you learn rulings like that, you better go learn it again and more careful.

ahh sorry. I was wrong.

There was a OTK i read up a while ago with Gallis, Birdman, and Koa'ki Meiru Doom (which i had mistaken for Koa'ki Meiru Drago) which made me think otherwise.

ps. i think this OTK was what the original poster wanted know if he could do.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Gallis_the_Star_Beast_FTK

disappearing wrote:ahh sorry. I was wrong.

There was a OTK i read up a while ago with Gallis, Birdman, and Koa'ki Meiru Doom (which i had mistaken for Koa'ki Meiru Drago) which made me think otherwise.

ps. i think this OTK was what the original poster wanted know if he could do.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Gallis_the_Star_Beast_FTK

Of course. I had just gotten mixed up over whether Fossil Dyna was a negation or prevention effect.

disappearing wrote:ahh sorry. I was wrong.

There was a OTK i read up a while ago with Gallis, Birdman, and Koa'ki Meiru Doom (which i had mistaken for Koa'ki Meiru Drago) which made me think otherwise.

ps. i think this OTK was what the original poster wanted know if he could do.
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Gallis_the_Star_Beast_FTK

I don't think so. He asked about cards that effect summons, where Doom negates effects.

Either way, you cannot perform an action that would Special Summon while they are out.

And no, you cannot activate Charge of the Light Brigade while Rai Oh is out. Adding a Lightsworn is pretty much the effect of CotLB, not an optional side-effect. Same as how you can't use Reinforcement of the Army while Rai-Oh is out.

After asking my local judge, I may say that:
"Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" may only prevent the activation of cards whose only effect is to special summon a monster. If a card includes but is not limited to an effect that special summons then it can be activated though it will not resolve properly. The part(s) of the effect that had to do directly with the special summon will be ignored and not caried out.
I will prove this right away.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Tips:Fossil_Dyna_Pachycephalo


As stated in the link above "Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" will not negate "Last Turn" BUT will prevent your opponent from special summoning their monster giving you an immediate victory.

As an example, I may add:
One cannot activate "Reinforments of The Army" while "Thunder King Rai-Oh" is face up bacause the only effect of "Reinforments of The Army" is prevented from taking place due to "Thunder King Rai-Oh".
Since I have personally witnnessed a DN admininstrator (I remember who it was, but I don't think it would be of any use to mention it) having "Reinforments of The Army" sent to the graveyard in such an occasion, I will add an additional reference, should it be needed, so that you can prove your point in a future duel even if a judge/moderator/administrator disagrees with you...

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Thunder_King_Rai-Oh#On_Not_Adding_Cards_to_Hands

To make it easier, I like to think of this as if cards like "Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo", "Thunder King Rai-Oh" and "Archlord Kristya" were designed to "change" the game mechanics in some way, while they are face up on the field. It's like adding cards from your deck to your hand or all kinds of special summons do not even exist. So, these cards can do absolutely nothing. There is no reason for a card that can do nothing, (for instance "Ojamagic"), to activate. So they can't activate. The rest of the cards then would be like they never mentioned anything about special summoning and their effects that depended on that never existed.

The End

P.S. I do believe that judges/moderators/administrators are entitled to making mistakes... But I wouldn't like if those mistakes were made in my duel

P.S.#2 However I am not quite sure whether if "Gravekeeper's Spy" is Flip Summoned while "Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" is face up on the field will activate an effect. I speculate he won't.

When Ojamagic is sent to grave, or Spy is flipped, their effect still active, since they are Mandatory. But they will resolve without effect.

No no. When a continuous effect on the field prevents Special Summons, even if Spy is flipped, its effect won't activate even if it's mandatory. Effects can't activate if they're known to resolve without any effect.

You're confusing this with Reborn Tengu; its effect activates regardless of how many are left in the deck. If you chain The Transmigration Prophecy to Reborn Tengu's effect, returning a Reborn Tengu from your Graveyard to your Deck, it will resolve like it should.

ASOBITAI wrote:No no. When a continuous effect on the field prevents Special Summons, even if Spy is flipped, its effect won't activate even if it's mandatory. Effects can't activate if they're known to resolve without any effect.

You're confusing this with Reborn Tengu; its effect activates regardless of how many are left in the deck. If you chain The Transmigration Prophecy to Reborn Tengu's effect, returning a Reborn Tengu from your Graveyard to your Deck, it will resolve like it should.

Player cannot actives Optional effect, but Mandatory must be actived. The only ways to stop it is Angel 07 or similar cards.

That why if you control Fossil and LADD is destroyed, then LADD's effect still active and destroy Fossil, then SS the targeted monster.

Does this mean you can do an Gallis OTK/FTK without Koa'ki Meiru Doom but with a special summon preventer?
As only the special summon is negated this takes less cards then Birdman and Doom. And there are multiple special summon preventer instead of using specifically only Doom and Birdman.

Ultimate lol wrote:Does this mean you can do an Gallis OTK/FTK without Koa'ki Meiru Doom but with a special summon negater?
As only the special summon is negated this takes less cards then Birdman and Doom. And there are multiple special summon negaters instead of using specifically only Doom and Birdman.

Negater, yes.
Preventer, no.
You cannot attempt an optional Special Summon while cards like Fossil Dyna or Krystia are on the field.
And @ the Tengu example, Tengu will still activate even if Fossil Dyna is on the field, it will just resolve unsuccessfully. Same with all mandatory effects that Special Summon, including GK's Spy.

Fossil Dyna is preventer, right?

az09 wrote:"Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" may only prevent the activation of cards whose only effect is to special summon a monster. If a card includes but is not limited to an effect that special summons then it can be activated though it will not resolve properly. The part(s) of the effect that had to do directly with the special summon will be ignored and not caried out.

Gallis effect is not only to special summon itself, yes?
So Gallis can activate with Dyna on the field, doing dmg but won't be special summoned? Thus making an OTK/FTK with all monsters in deck?

Ultimate lol wrote:Fossil Dyna is preventer, right?

az09 wrote:"Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo" may only prevent the activation of cards whose only effect is to special summon a monster. If a card includes but is not limited to an effect that special summons then it can be activated though it will not resolve properly. The part(s) of the effect that had to do directly with the special summon will be ignored and not caried out.

Gallis effect is not only to special summon itself, yes?
So Gallis can activate with Dyna on the field, doing dmg but won't be special summoned? Thus making an OTK/FTK with all monsters in deck?

Unfortunately no.

It is quite possible -if not certain- that "Gallis the Star Beast" had its effect partially mistranslated. Consequently rulings for this particular card might seem a little strange.
It is not possible to activate "Gallis the Star Beast" if a summon preventer is face up on the field. This probably means that in the original text the entire effect was stated in a manner which connected all the parts of the effect with the special summoning.
For instance If "Banisher of the Radiance"/"Macro Cosmos"/etc is active, then you can activate the effect of "Gallis the Star Beast". The top card of your deck will be removed from play instead. Also, if the removed card is a monster, then you still inflict damage and Special Summon "Gallis the Star Beast".
However in the TCG text of the card it states clearly that "You can reveal this card in your hand; send the top card of your Deck to the Graveyard, then, if it was a monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to its Level x 200 and Special Summon this card from your hand, otherwise destroy this card.". So it should be impossible to inflict any damage if the card was not sent to the graveyard. (See the "Starlight Road" vs "Heavy Storm" & "Mystical Space Typhoon" example). So, I am almost sure when I say that the tranlation was messed up (like it was with "Zombie Master" that in his original text stated "WHILE THIS CARD IS FACE-UP ON THE FIELD, once per turn, you can send 1 Monster card from your hand to the Graveyard, then target 1 Level 4 or lower Zombie-Type monster in either player's Graveyard; Special Summon that target." and the UDE translation was "Once per turn, you can send 1 Monster Card from your hand to the Graveyard to Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower Zombie-Type Monster from either player's Graveyard.". This resulted in an inexplicable TCG ruling that "If you activate “Zombie Master’s” effect, and an effect is chained that removes “Zombie Master” from the field or flips it face-down, the effect disappears and you cannot Special Summon the targeted monster").

Finally if "Scapegoat" (or "Call of the Haunted" targeting "Fossil Dyna Pachycaphalo") is Chained to the activation of "Gallis the Star Beast", then the effect of "Gallis the Star Beast" still resolves, and you send the top card of your Deck to the Graveyard. However, if the sent card is a monster, then after inflicting damage "Gallis the Star Beast" is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard.

This is because "Gallis the Star Beast" states that "send the top card of your Deck to the Graveyard, then, if it was a monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to its Level x 200 and Special Summon this card from your hand, otherwise destroy this card." which means that if you can't send the top card of your Deck to the Graveyard AND then, if it was a monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to its Level x 200 AND (then) Special Summon this card from your hand, the "otherwise" part has its activating condition fullfilled. Since "Gallis the Star Beast" had its effect activated and special summoning does not exist but EXISTED WHEN the effect activated its effect cannot fully resolve , so it will die.



The End

P.S. Forgive my typos, if there are any.

Ok, I though as much. Else this would be run more I think. Your previous ruling just had my statement as result in my mind.