Admin Test Discussion

Hi

I took the newest admin test, and as ppl may know, I used to be a respectible admin. I only got 8/20. I'm hearing this from all sides. now is my problem not that the test is too hard, I mean, by all means, make it hard enough so that you get good mods. the problem however is, that there is a noticible shortage on admins. I noticed, with several of my friends, that long times there have been no admins on duty, not even online.
I don't blame the current admins, cause I'm sure they work their asses off to keep this running. but when ur running fresh out of admins, and then you make an admin test so hard, seems rather contradictional.

And I can fully understand Black Luster Soldier wants the best admins, but adminning isn't all about ruling skill. one of the things that helped me most during my time as admin, was being able to just talk with ppl.

also, the build up of the test is making it too hard. if you know the ruling, and you make one little mistake, you get the entire question wrong. it's too much possibility to fail and too few to win.

I hope people can see what I want to say, and I hope people can agree with me, or explain me why they think otherwise.

Disclaimer: Any mention of the questions from tests will result in permanent ban.

I strongly agree.
I also only got 8/20.

The test's structure was awful. I won't go into detail, but how it was laid out was not good. It seemed more like an English test than a ruling exam. No offense Det/Tama/Chief/Ice, the test was awful IMO.

thank you for your quick replies, appreciate it. I hope we can turn things with this. not in the way off casting bls off the throne, but to make him know his test is slightly overkill

I agree with Vantage, it looked more like English test to me than admin test.

VantageSP wrote:The test's structure was awful. I won't go into detail, but how it was laid out was not good. It seemed more like an English test than a ruling exam. No offense Det/Tama/Chief/Ice, the test was awful IMO.

I agree. Like I said in the other thread, this test is not a good representation of one's ruling knowledge. I got 10/20 which seems to be better than what some current admins got :/

https://i.imgur.com/fXJlw.jpg

The graph posted by Naus indicates quite strongly that the test was too difficult.

holy cow, that hurts

I agree on how badly the test was laid out, the Konami Level 1 Judge test is laid out better. I'll justl eave it at that, there's other issues I had that are probably the direct cause of these floods of 8/20s that I doubt we're allowed to discuss.

There was a ton of ambiguity in the questions. One question I got had no continuity what-so-ever. The Question said the card was on the field, but the answers ALL implied it was in the grave... Another one provided 2 seemly right answers. But because of ONE word (because) it caused the question to become more difficult than it should have been. Basically it was like this. Choice #3 was right, but 4 was also right. The problem with 4 was the word because. The because implied that it was the only reason why things would turn out that way. If it lacked the word because, 3 and 4 would have been right. See how one word made 1 question completely messed... Believe me, I was quite outspoken in terms of this test after I took it.

lol, wtf, that makes 0,000 sense XD

I used to be an admin once, then i quit because helping 6900 persons and dealing with troll pm is mission impossible. There isn't enough admins to assist everyone so the pressure come uppon the few ones. You guys need to loosen up on recruitment because DN need at least 25 activate admins everyday not 5 and 3 afk.
I took the test just for knowledge testing and surprisingly i only got 6/20. I'm pretty confident that i don't deserve this mark. There must have been a problem with the wording like others said or with the pointing system.

To be honest, I'm just waiting for a new green admin or a higher-ranked administrator to come into the thread and say the test was flawless and that everyone who failed needs to learn rulings/ be as good as them/ etc.

I tried to convince Colder than ice to do that, but he didn't want to D:

This test was badly made. Nothing against the Head Staff, but it WAS badly made, nearly everyone approves to that.

Sylveraine wrote: I noticed, with several of my friends, that long times there have been no admins on duty, not even online.

This is just due to the admin vacuum Europe has in the morning/afternoon. There are enough American mods and a good few Europeans. but the eastern sector has way less. And since most people admin after there daily work Europe gets a vacuum.

so true

i agree, some of the questions were unnessisarily confusing, and many seemed to be made with the goal of causing people to get them wrong, i got a 7/20 but on the kde ruling exams i averaged 80%

I scored 9/20 but I was so tired that it was 20/20 for me. I never considered myself a ruling freak but didn't expect to be that low. Agreed that the test was difficult and hard to understand, agreed about being more like an English test than a ruling test (and English is not my native ).
I don't want to be mean, nobody said that the test should had been easy, but I don't think it served its purpose. I scored higher than ex-admins , does that mean that I know rulings better than them? I hardly think so, I've only been playing competitively for some months.

Honestly, this felt more like a "Can you get this question" than do you know this ruling.

And yes, during the day hours for Europe is very under staffed. I have been on during those times. Many times just me and maybe one other (3am-6am Eastern Time NA).

VantageSP wrote:Honestly, this felt more like a "Can you get this question" than do you know this ruling.

And yes, during the day hours for Europe is very under staffed. I have been on during those times. Many times just me and maybe one other (3am-6am Eastern Time NA).

this.

thats the best description of what it was, and the question format of the latter portion of the test lended itself to one slip up making the whole question wrong, even if you clearly knew the ruling from the other portions of the question

If you really want to know which admins are off-duty, add all admins as friends. It's unf. the only way to stay up-to-date.

I did that, and I tell you, a whole lot of ppl are off duty ...
@ vantage's comment, so true xD

S.S.A. wrote:i got a 7/20 but on the kde ruling exams i averaged 80%

KDE is easy, not even challenging, I would've got 100, but I didn't have a COSSY ID xD

The test was built badly, as it only focused on rulings. Being a bad judge doesn't mean you can't stop trolls and spammers, or watching duel notes and etc

Not to mention that current Admins are getting below 16, so if they were members, they'd fail and we'd probably have a total of 10 Admins.

It's really not worth volunteering to be an Admin when it's like they don't want anymore, cause this test really seems like sabotage cause the format is bad...

now that's an argument. glad to have you on my side, radiant =3
btw, like ur signature xD

Zero2Hero wrote:

S.S.A. wrote:i got a 7/20 but on the kde ruling exams i averaged 80%

KDE is easy, not even challenging, I would've got 100, but I didn't have a COSSY ID xD

The test was built badly, as it only focused on rulings. Being a bad judge doesn't mean you can't stop trolls and spammers, or watching duel notes and etc

Not to mention that current Admins are getting below 16, so if they were members, they'd fail and we'd probably have a total of 10 Admins.

It's really not worth volunteering to be an Admin when it's like they don't want anymore, cause this test really seems like sabotage cause the format is bad...

yeah i know, but still, it shouldnt be a bad indicator of a good test because its the official one you know

so, SO, true

I have to agree. The test was difficult. I got like a 10/20. It could have been handled better. I know I remember mentioning something about it takes more than just knowing rules to be an admin to the higher ups. You got to treat being an in-game admin like working in a field that works customer service. If you are great at rulings but can't handle customer service then you probably won't last long.

I look a this thread and I see so much complaining...

The test was structured very carefully by the head staff. A person taking this test can easily know what a question is asking for if he/she simply takes the time to read the question thoroughly and completely.

The rulings asked in this test are very complicated as well. This is needed in order to fully understand a person's knowledge of rulings.

One particular subject that caught my attention in this thread is the comparison of DN's test to Konami's judge test. This comparison cannot be taken into account at all. Konami's judge test is simplicity at its finest and does not give us a good understanding of a person's ruling knowledge.

Another thing I do not like is how everyone loves to bash the test without any understanding of how much work the head staff put into it. This shows a lot of disrespect to the people who made it and to DN itself.

We have received A LOT of passing test scores from users and admins alike, which shows me that the test's difficulty level is perfectly fine.

In the end, the test was hard but we intentionally made it that way. Posting in this thread isn't going to magically make the test any easier or change anything.

With that said, I bid you all adieu.

I totally agree on that, DarkRiku, partially since I'm the one that said that admins aren't only rulings, but also need to know how to handle other situations, and AEthechild and Zero2Hero both agreed on that

Just because head admins made it doesn't mean it's flawless.
Just because we have a negative view on the test doesn't mean we are disrespectful brats.

oh, colder, then plz do explain this: https://i.imgur.com/fXJlw.jpg
and while ur at it, perhaps remember the part that admins aren't some mindless rulingmachines, but also need to be able to handle situations like cheating, or spamming, or insulting. need I go on? you miss half the part of this treat. this is not only whining about some test, this is whining about what the test represents. meaning that it means that the rules are made too important. and as for the part where you say we disrespect the ppl who made it, I must disagree. I know they put a lot of work in it, but I still wonder, what is the use of the test? is it to filter out the perfect ones, or do you want a good running system with good mods?

Colder Than Ice wrote:I look a this thread and I see so much complaining...

The test was structured very carefully by the head staff. A person taking this test can easily know what a question is asking for if he/she simply takes the time to read the question thoroughly and completely.

The rulings asked in this test are very complicated as well. This is needed in order to fully understand a person's knowledge of rulings.

One particular subject that caught my attention in this thread is the comparison of DN's test to Konami's judge test. This comparison cannot be taken into account at all. Konami's judge test is simplicity at its finest and does not give us a good understanding of a person's ruling knowledge.

Another thing I do not like is how everyone loves to bash the test without any understanding of how much work the head staff put into it. This shows a lot of disrespect to the people who made it and to DN itself.

We have received A LOT of passing test scores from users and admins alike, which shows me that the test's difficulty level is perfectly fine.

In the end, the test was hard but we intentionally made it that way. Posting in this thread isn't going to magically make the test any easier or change anything.

With that said, I bid you all adieu.

That's the problem you tried too hard, Especially when after finally understanding what question is all about you see more cards added into the mix when you look at answers, test doesn't really represent one's ruling knowledge.

Colder has a biased PoV, of coarse he will defend the test. I mean no disrespect, don't get me wrong, I know how hard you guys (especially Det) worked on it. I agree with BB with his above post. You guys spent too much time making the questions overly complex. I think the term "Artificial Difficulty" comes to mind.

Colder Than Ice wrote:
In the end, the test was hard but we intentionally made it that way. Posting in this thread isn't going to magically make the test any easier or change anything.

Nobody said it would make things different, but we are just discussing...Same way discussing about inzektors and windups being overpowered won't make them less broken...we are just saying...

Also, I agree with Sylveraine, I don't think anybody intended to be disrespectful on admins and if I personally said something that was taken as disrespect, then I apologize

The test was messed up because it was more tricky than straightforward, but honestly that isn't really an excuse. If you took it seriously enough there is no reason not to do well on it. I think it is a fairly accurate assessment of a person's ruling knowledge/diligence.

Whether admins should be hired solely on rulings knowledge or test taking ability is a whole different question, however.

Asherpotter wrote:The test was messed up because it was more tricky than straightforward, but honestly that isn't really an excuse. If you took it seriously enough there is no reason not to do well on it. I think it is a fairly accurate assessment of a person's ruling knowledge/diligence.

Whether admins should be hired solely on rulings knowledge or test taking ability is a whole different question, however.

You got 20/20 on this test, I will worship the ground you walk on until I can do the same.

I AM NOT WORTHY!!!

xD omg, so nice xD
well, now even ppl that get perfect score are saying so O_o
what more can Colder want, a lap dance?

The main reason why the test is disliked:

"Check all that apply:"

Take those out and you have a good test.

VantageSP wrote:The main reason why the test is disliked:

"Check all that apply:"

Take those out and you have a good test.

I agree. A question within a question is rather confusing when trying to find the answer.

yeah, that would clear up most problems

Zero2Hero wrote:

Asherpotter wrote:The test was messed up because it was more tricky than straightforward, but honestly that isn't really an excuse. If you took it seriously enough there is no reason not to do well on it. I think it is a fairly accurate assessment of a person's ruling knowledge/diligence.

Whether admins should be hired solely on rulings knowledge or test taking ability is a whole different question, however.

You got 20/20 on this test, I will worship the ground you walk on until I can do the same.

I AM NOT WORTHY!!!

Oh, master, how can we ever be as pure and all-knowing as you? Please, grant us this knowledge so we may one day walk in your footsteps and worship the ground you walked on...

DarkRiku wrote:

VantageSP wrote:The main reason why the test is disliked:

"Check all that apply:"

Take those out and you have a good test.

I agree. A question within a question is rather confusing when trying to find the answer.

thats what killed me

Especially when most of the "check all that apply" had some sort of contradiction or trick to it.

hail vantage

I've been over this with Colder Than Ice like an hour now, and well, there were many conflicts in that convo, coming from both sides, but as he also said, we need to be coming up with ideas, and thank god for vantage to do that.

The test shouldn't be changed anymore for a few reasons:
• While it should have some free response, this is too time-consuming to grade, so we'd end up recruiting the same number of admins as before. Right now this test is helping recruit a very large amount of admins.
• It's hard enough that only those who try the hardest and be sure to read all of the minutia will pass. And lots of people are passing. If 15,000 people take it, and 14,900 fail, you still end up with 100 great new admins. Considering it hasn't even been a month yet, that number is fine.
• The reason the test is messed up is that it tests not simply knowledge, but also how well you can identify tricks. While straightforward tests are nice, there is no reason you can't pass a test a tricky test; you just need to try harder. The test should not be made straightforward if the heads do not want a straightforward test. While the test is messed up, it is not unfair. There are a hell of a lot of messed up tests for all different kinds of things; these just require you to go above and beyond.
• Tests aren't supposed to be liked; they are supposed to provide an assessment. This test provides the assessment it was designed to, so the the problem lies not with the test itself, but rather with a debate in what qualities should be assessed.

However, in my opinion, there should be more sections, because different qualities should be assessed (being an admin isn't all about identifying tricks). The SAT isn't just math, the admin test shouldn't just be rulings. I would like to see a Policy test, as well as a Game Mechanics test. Maybe also a Practical part that places you in a few simulated calls, but alas these things are not so easy. Look how long it took just to get the Rulings exam written.

I am willing to help, but seriously I despise artificial difficulty. I hate Multiple Choice basically. Most tests I have taken with MC questions all threw in something to add A.D. That is not right, especially in a test. You shouldn't be tested on how well you overcome the structure of a test, but the content itself. I understand the Heads did not want to surf through piles of Written answers, which is the main reason MC was used. But things did not need to be over-complicated. One thing I would like to point out on the test is it DOES test the user on their reading comprehension, so it does have that going for it. An admin does need to know how to read a situation properly. But when was the last time you seen a user use such complex language. You see this a lot " Admin sir he cheat!" Basic internet speak. I do see where Colder is coming from, and respect his opinions, as well as the work he has put into the test. I am just expressing my concerns for the betterment of the test and DN.