Solemn warning cannot negate these cards.

**Minako** 2011-05-20, 13:14

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t38-solemn-warnings-limit-yep-read-this-you-overusing-people

Okay so Chico locked this topic. Please don't lock topics about ruling discussions because there was an incorrect ruling inside of it. Now since it was locked I decided to pm the person that posted the incorrect ruling to inform her she was wrong. This is what happened.

Minako wrote:I am not wrong about solemn warning.

Solemn Warning can only negate the activation of Spell and Trap cards that will Special Summon upon the resolution of that Spell and Trap card. It cannot be activated when the Ignition-like/Trigger-like effects of Spell and Trap cards are activated that would Special Summon, such as cards as Infernity Launcher.

Macro cosmos will special summon upon it's resolution. That's why you can negate cosmos with warning.

Cards like Valhalla and launcher can't be negated by warning.

Toxique wrote:I am open to other opinions, but as of now, you have cited less sources, namely none, whereas I have cited a few reliable sources (Konami and the card itself) to defend my opinion. I may very well be wrong, but what you just did was basically repeating yourself. Could you either state sources as to why it wouldn't be able to negate cards like Valhalla, or take down my arguments?

Also, it may be better to do this in a public discussion so that many people can help in finding a definite answer, as well as profit from it. That's why I suggest that you make a new thread about it.

So I'm posting this in public so everyone can comment on this as well as providing links to support my argument. Here is an email saying warning cannot negate launcher.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=19467527&postcount=235

here is a thread where they argue about gateway. Which like launcher cannot be negated by warning.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=930602

Here we have a thread where it's decided that warning can negate macro cosmos but not gateway or launcher.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=897123

Here we have boss rush, black garden, and launcher again. Again they can't be negated by warning.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=906512

This time it's just black garden but again you can't negate it with warning.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=904389

We have launcher again and once again you cannot negate it with warning.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=893074

Here we have Valhalla. Surprisingly it can't be negated by warning either.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=892561

Here aside from other rulings we have launcher vs warning again and once again it's stated that you cannot stop it.

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=952216

and to close I'm gonna quote al-bhed who provided me with these links. Thanks Al.

Al-bhed says: it seems that royal oppression is mistranslated and it too says that it negates an effect that INCLUDES special summons. That means that it works similarly to solemn warning in regards to special summons with the difference that warning negates activations while Royal Oppression effects
going by that you can apply the ancient ruins ruling to solemn warning as well, to show its inability to negate the initial activation, the inability to negate effects is shown in its texts while the ocg shows it quite clearly

Guest 2011-05-20, 13:34

I think your wording is a little confusing in some cases but regardless no you cant negate the effect of a card that special summons only the activation so if your opponents card is already face up then your going to have to "negate" it with MST or be out of luck.

**Minako** 2011-05-20, 13:40

Red Harlow wrote:I think your wording is a little confusing in some cases but regardless no you cant negate the effect of a card that special summons only the activation so if your opponents card is already face up then your going to have to "negate" it with MST or be out of luck.

I am talking about the activation of the cards themselves. In this sense you are the one that is confused. You cannot negate them ever. Solemn warning can only negate the effect of a spell or trap that will special summon upon it's resolution. None of the cards I mentioned above do that upon resolution. Therefor you cannot their activations and you of course cannot negate the effect of an already active continuous spell or trap.

**Al-Bhed** 2011-05-20, 13:43

Red Harlow wrote:I think your wording is a little confusing in some cases but regardless no you cant negate the effect of a card that special summons only the activation so if your opponents card is already face up then your going to have to "negate" it with MST or be out of luck.

That wasn't the point of it, the point is that you cannot negate the initial activation of cards like black garden, valhala, infernity launcher, gateway of the six etc. with Solemn Warning as their initial activation summons nothing.

The counteragruement of this is this line of Solemn warning " that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s)" so Toxique is saying as those cards include such an effect warning can negate them.

However Royal Oppression in its original ocg text says the same thing: "that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s)" , which is why at first players in the OCG would try to negate the effect of Gale which halves ATK/DEF using royal oppression, until they were corrected. That text never made it to the TCG but on Solemn Warning it did hence the confusion. Royal Oppression has a ruling which addresses the matter

Ruling wrote:The effect of "Royal Oppression" can be activated neither when "Ancient City - Rainbow Ruins" is first activated nor when the "3+:" and "4+:" effects are activated. However, "Royal Oppression" can be activated in Chain to the "5+:" effect which Special Summons a monster being treated as a Continuous Spell Card. The "1+:" effect of "Ancient City - Rainbow Ruins" will prevent it from being destroyed, but the effect which Special Summons a "Crystal Beast" monster will be negated.[15]
http://yugioh.faq.konami.jp/EokpControl?&lang=en&tid=48967&event=FE0006

Which states that even though Ancient City includes an effect which special summons Royal Oppression cannot respond to its initial activation, despite its wording.

The linked threads support that as well.

**Gorz** 2011-05-20, 13:57

I would totally give you a +1 on Rep for this, but I don't have 50 posts yet. This is an amazing thing to have though. Thank you very much.

**Minako** 2011-05-20, 14:03

Gorz wrote:I would totally give you a +1 on Rep for this, but I don't have 50 posts yet. This is an amazing thing to have though. Thank you very much.

Whether that's toward me or Al, thanks. Reputation is just a number so don't worry about it. We just have this thing about people getting false information. On a side note your gorz avi is super pimp.

Guest 2011-05-20, 14:04

well you dont need to waste a solemn warning on any of those cards anyway. MST "negates" their effects and costs nothing.

**Aludra** 2011-05-20, 15:04

so, you cannot negate W Nebula meteorite or somethin like that with warning, right?

**Al-Bhed** 2011-05-20, 15:17

According to the japanese faq you can respond to the initial activation of W Nebula Meteor with Royal Oppression/Solemn Warning: http://yugioh-wiki.net/index.php?%A1%D4%A3%D7%C0%B1%B1%C0%F0%A8%C0%D0%A1%D5
The summon in the end phase doesnt start a chain so it seems to be similar to Future Fusion in that aspect, you can negate the initial activation with both but cannot when the summon happens.

You can look at it like that, and I think this is what the "include" in the text is supposed to mean. The initial activation of Future Fusion/W Nebula Meteorite will cause a summon, so whether it is at the moment the chain itself resolves or not that this happens you can use Royal Oppression/Solemn Warning, however the initial activation of Valhalla/Ancient City will not cause a summon on its own, you have to choose to activate an effect of said card to cause a summon. That is the difference between the 2.

**Dombeldass** 2011-05-20, 16:03

warning can negate starlight road? cz SR's effect say that negate a card bla bla bla. Then you can special summon 1 Stardust Dragon... that last line is the meaning of my cuestion, if the effect of SR first negate the card that will destroy 2 or more card and that stuff, and finally summon stardust, the solemn w would negate only the SS of stardust or all the effect of SR?

**Hyaweh★kawa** 2011-05-20, 16:16

Warning will negate the activation of Starlight Road.
As the activation have been negated, Starlight Road will not Resolve.

**Chico** 2011-05-20, 18:59

*ahem*, I AM locking topics in which the ruling has been cleared up. Wikia said all the obvious things, no reason for the thread to remain open. Before people start posting stupid things again.

**AxleTheRed** 2011-05-20, 20:44

And what about Geartown ? Do you think you can use Solemn Warning on Geartown when it is destroyed and sent to grave ?

**Minako** 2011-05-20, 22:27

AxleTheRed wrote:And what about Geartown ? Do you think you can use Solemn Warning on Geartown when it is destroyed and sent to grave ?

Gear town doesn't special summon upon its resolution therefor you cannot chain solemn warning to it's initial activation. Once gear town is destroyed you cannot activate warning because warning can only be chained to the activation of a spell card. This is just the activation of an effect of a card but not the activation of the card itself.

Chico I see your point but the there was still an incorrect ruling floating in the post. Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to be rude or am but I was concerned.

**Chico** 2011-05-21, 04:17

I obviously linked to Wikia in my last post

All the correct rulings were there.

Because of that, issue solved.

**Toxique** 2011-05-21, 06:03

Thanks a lot for clearing that up.

I'll change my standard of when I'm certain about something to the point that I deem statements that contract mine as false.

**Minako** 2011-05-21, 08:42

Chico wrote:I obviously linked to Wikia in my last post

All the correct rulings were there.

Because of that, issue solved.

I'm sorry if it seemed I was attacking you. I was just saying to be careful of the locking ruling threads as they can be misleading if false information is left up in the air like that. However your link was toward monster reborn in that thread and I had already provided that link and even though that one person was wrong and wouldn't admit it is irrelevant. This post is obviously not about monster reborn. So your link didn't solve the issue I was/am talking about.

You're welcome Toxique.

**Al-Bhed** 2011-05-21, 10:09

Chico wrote:I obviously linked to Wikia in my last post

All the correct rulings were there.

Because of that, issue solved.

But you posted a link to monster reborn's rulings. That did not address the matter of targetting at all (and its interraction with negators, as it seems the person who brought in up had a very bad understanding of how solemn warning works), which was the question that brought up monster reborn in the first place and the point of the discussion (as it seems, mango's logic made no sense at some point), neither did it have something to do with the initial matter in the OP. It solved nothing.

Wikia does not mention anything about the issue that we have here under solemn warning either. The rulings that are under solemn warning are:

You cannot negate the activation of a card that cannot Special Summon a monster, such as Lightning Vortex.[1]
You can negate the activation of Macro Cosmos with this card.[1]
OCG RulingsEdit
"Solemn Warning" cannot negate the activation of a Spell or Trap Card if the Spell or Trap Card does not include the effect of Special Summoning a monster[2][3], such as "Smashing Ground".[2], "Lightning Vortex", or "Raigeki Break".[3]
"Solemn Warning" can be Chained to the activation of a card or the activation of an Effect Monster's effect such as:[3]
The activation of an Effect Monster's effect that Special Summons a monster(s), like the effect of "Nimble Momonga" or "Marauding Captain".[3]
The activation of a Spell or Trap Card that Special Summons a monster(s), like "Level Modulation" or "Call of the Haunted".[3]
The Normal Summon or Flip Summon of a monster, or the Special Summon of a monster like "Cyber Dragon" or "Judgment Dragon".[3]
Mentions in Other RulingsEdit
If an effect like "Solemn Warning" or "Royal Oppression" negates the the Synchro Summon of "Voltic Bicorn" or "Lightning Tricorn" or "Scrap Dragon" and destroys it, then you can activate the monster's effect.[4]

Not every ruling issue can be resolved with the official rulings, if that was the case there would be no questions at all, and consequently no need for this section. Even those that can be solved with the official rulings need to be explained on how it is so. If when trying to explain solemn warning I simply pointed to the ancient city ruling under royal oppression very few people would understand the point.

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