Dark world meta?

**Loekman3** 2011-07-31, 05:35

Many people say the new dark world cards are overpowered but is that enough turn dark world to meta deck?(Until september where they could ban grapha).

**{EX} TheVoid** 2011-07-31, 05:42

Dark World gets a lot of support but I havent seen too much trouble from Dark Worlds. Most Dark World decks are inconsistant, relying on DWD or their field spell.

**byak** 2011-07-31, 09:53

Dark Worlds are a tier 1 deck, as shown by the OCG.

And they'll only get better with Tour Guide in TCG.

**dest** 2011-07-31, 11:30

the problem of dw is that they rely on both: Effects that discard and monsters to discard. If either one is missing that deck is most likely doomed. Disable the grave and the deck is also doomed. Disable special summons and you've basicly won.

In short, when you can get Naturia Beast/Exterio backed up by veiler (most discards are spells/monsters) and/or d-fissure/macro you've most likely won. it is as simple as that.

Also, even if you have neither of the above, dw is far away from being unbeatable, I've already won many times against them^^

**BobaFett2** 2011-07-31, 11:49

Right now in Japan Dark Worlds are one the four strongest decks in their meta (along with Six Samurai, Agents, and something else, probably T.G.). I can imagine that Dark Worlds will also be one of the top decks in the TCG meta as well, considering how amazing Grapha, Snow, and Gate make them.

**Phoenix Wright** 2011-07-31, 12:24

Loekman3 wrote:Many people say the new dark world cards are overpowered but is that enough turn dark world to meta deck?(Until september where they could ban grapha).

Grapha isn't going to be released until October, So DW won't be hit at all on this banlist

and at most, it will be limited/semi'd in march, since gate of the darkworld is the main engine for that deck

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 12:27

Play the deck, and you realize the sheer power within it. We who play the deck do not rely on the Field Spell, that's a fairytale that you believe from the last couple of Structure Decks.

We can play without it, using other Discard outlets, and no, Naturia Beast does not spell doom.

>Fabled Raven
>Tour Guide -> Leviathan Dragon

Those are the easiest tricks to pull off. Plus the ability to use Skill Drain makes us a powerful force. There's some of us that ALSO main Doomcaliber Knight due to it's ability to become food for the Field Spell should we ever draw it.

We're not entirely inconsistent, but we require skill. Some call us Herp Derp, some call us Stupidly Broken, but in fact, we're not. We are only as powerful as The Legion allows us to be.

And I swear if someone here says Celri's good, I'm gonna ban them. >_> (just joking)

**Phoenix Wright** 2011-07-31, 12:41

This is true, however, I said the field spell was the MAIN engine for the deck, not the only one, nor that your relied on it

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 12:45

That wasn't for you, Pox. I would've quoted you if I was pointing it at you.

However, since you responded...

The only hit towards Dark Worlds that they'd ever do wouldn't be a hit on the Structure Deck contents, but rather, Card Destruction or the Virus cards.

Card Destruction - It's an OTK-enabling card in a Dark World Deck, and has proven to be the most powerful discard outlet letting us +5 off it thanks to Snow and Broww.

Viruses - Allows us to take complete advantage of Grapha's revival effect, and as such, makes him the perfect tribute for the virus to save him from Bottomless Trap Hole and the like.

That's the most Konami can do to us, unless they wanna hit Tour Guide already, or just smack a Dark World member that isn't brand new.

**thmaninblack** 2011-07-31, 15:34

Main rank 3 exceed won't be number 17 leviathan dragon. It will be Empty Space Sea Serpent Leviair. Tour guide breaks this.

Step 1: Use gate, remove something, discard and draw.
Step 2: Summon Tour guide, get a sangan or broww.
Step 3: Exceed into Leviair.
Step 4: remove 1 material, summon the rfp monster, bounce it for grapha
Step 5: Laugh. Laugh loudly.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 15:39

thmaninblack wrote:Main rank 3 exceed won't be number 17 leviathan dragon. It will be Empty Space Sea Serpent Leviair. Tour guide breaks this.

Step 1: Use gate, remove something, discard and draw.
Step 2: Summon Tour guide, get a sangan or broww.
Step 3: Exceed into Leviair.
Step 4: remove 1 material, summon the rfp monster, bounce it for grapha
Step 5: Laugh. Laugh loudly.

Leviathan kills Mr. Naturia Beast, which was apparently a problem listed by a user on this thread.

**thmaninblack** 2011-07-31, 15:42

dest wrote:the problem of dw is that they rely on both: Effects that discard and monsters to discard. If either one is missing that deck is most likely doomed. Disable the grave and the deck is also doomed. Disable special summons and you've basicly won.

In short, when you can get Naturia Beast/Exterio backed up by veiler (most discards are spells/monsters) and/or d-fissure/macro you've most likely won. it is as simple as that.

Also, even if you have neither of the above, dw is far away from being unbeatable, I've already won many times against them^^

The problem is that this lock doesn't work. Macro cosmos/d fissure kills naturia beast's effect in a way similar to the old gravekeeper's servant and d fissure interaction. As for killing the beast summon dark world, bounce for graph works as well. Not saying that Leviathan is bad, but Leviair has more combos and its function is far less easily replaced.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 15:45

I laugh at people that think I can't get around that, honestly.

It's easy when you side Spell/Trap hate, and it would be a lot easier siding Chaos Hunter as an extra Tribute for EEV's effect.

**Badass_Bunny** 2011-07-31, 15:46

dest wrote:the problem of dw is that they rely on both: Effects that discard and monsters to discard. If either one is missing that deck is most likely doomed. Disable the grave and the deck is also doomed. Disable special summons and you've basicly won.

In short, when you can get Naturia Beast/Exterio backed up by veiler (most discards are spells/monsters) and/or d-fissure/macro you've most likely won. it is as simple as that.

Also, even if you have neither of the above, dw is far away from being unbeatable, I've already won many times against them^^

Tell that to the guy who topped Jap nationals

**dest** 2011-07-31, 17:38

according to what you say I always played against really stupid dw users... was about 50 already^^

and that is also why I said N Beast backed up by veiler, that stops tour guide, that stops raven etc.

And I also said and/or macro. I know that beast doesn't work with macro on the field, but it works in case macro gets removed. And macro itself is a lock for them. (beside that, for grapha to be summoned from the grave you must get him in the grave first)

I didn't say they are weak, that is not the case. But if you know how to stop them they are stopable, at least easier than Samurai, any kind of that synchro spam decks or whatever else of that kind. Of course that also depends on the deck you use, but I hope you get what I mean...

**BobaFett2** 2011-07-31, 17:39

dest wrote:according to what you say I always played against really stupid dw users... was about 50 already^^

and that is also why I said N Beast backed up by veiler, that stops tour guide, that stops raven etc.

And I also said and/or macro. I know that beast doesn't work with macro on the field, but it works in case macro gets removed. And macro itself is a lock for them.

I didn't say they are weak, that is not the case. But if you know how to stop them they are stopable, at least easier than Samurai, any kind of that synchro spam decks or whatever else of that kind. Of course that also depends on the deck you use, but I hope you get what I mean...

Forgive my ignorance, but what is Tour Guide used for in Dark Worlds?

**dest** 2011-07-31, 17:44

rank 3 xyz^^
search out sangan
It can also search out brow which can be returned to the hand for an in grave grapha

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 17:56

dest wrote:rank 3 xyz^^
search out sangan
It can also search out brow which can be returned to the hand for an in grave grapha

I swear then, you did Duel a pretty bad Dark World Player if he's running Sangan... Sangan has no other target but Tour Guide and Broww, and even then, those have easier search outlets that won't lag you by 1 turn. Neutral

**BobaFett2** 2011-07-31, 17:57

Johnny Raptor wrote:
dest wrote:rank 3 xyz^^
search out sangan
It can also search out brow which can be returned to the hand for an in grave grapha

I swear then, you did Duel a pretty bad Dark World Player if he's running Sangan... Sangan has no other target but Tour Guide and Broww, and even then, those have easier search outlets that won't lag you by 1 turn.

Raven?

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 17:58

Raven isn't necessary in the Main Deck. At all.

You don't gain any advantage from him whatsoever that Dark World Dealings or Gate won't provide you.

Also, Foolish Burial has an easier time providing what you need that turn.

Then there's the viruses that let us kill weenies or some varying annoyances that we need to get rid of.

Etc.

I feel like I should get the guide from Pojo, but I kinda like seeing people on DN using the bad Dark World Monsters... xD

**Badass_Bunny** 2011-07-31, 17:59

dest wrote:according to what you say I always played against really stupid dw users... was about 50 already^^

and that is also why I said N Beast backed up by veiler, that stops tour guide, that stops raven etc.

And I also said and/or macro. I know that beast doesn't work with macro on the field, but it works in case macro gets removed. And macro itself is a lock for them. (beside that, for grapha to be summoned from the grave you must get him in the grave first)

I didn't say they are weak, that is not the case. But if you know how to stop them they are stopable, at least easier than Samurai, any kind of that synchro spam decks or whatever else of that kind. Of course that also depends on the deck you use, but I hope you get what I mean...

Every deck can be countered, basically Macro is answer to every meta deck, however Dark World are indeed a powerful archtype, they require card

dest wrote:the problem of dw is that they rely on both: Effects that discard and monsters to discard. If either one is missing that deck is most likely doomed. Disable the grave and the deck is also doomed. Disable special summons and you've basicly won.

Infernities needed an empty hand and card effects and look how that turned out

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 18:00

They turned out with an amazing loop that takes skill to actually do. To get the set-up AND the materials in the graveyard to do such a thing is somewhat a feat, but if you've mastered them... you can perform the loop, and even do mini-Loops that reflect it to get your Infernity Barrier(s). Surprised

**Potus-Mat** 2011-07-31, 18:00

dest wrote:according to what you say I always played against really stupid dw users... was about 50 already^^

and that is also why I said N Beast backed up by veiler, that stops tour guide, that stops raven etc.

And I also said and/or macro. I know that beast doesn't work with macro on the field, but it works in case macro gets removed. And macro itself is a lock for them. (beside that, for grapha to be summoned from the grave you must get him in the grave first)

I didn't say they are weak, that is not the case. But if you know how to stop them they are stopable, at least easier than Samurai, any kind of that synchro spam decks or whatever else of that kind. Of course that also depends on the deck you use, but I hope you get what I mean...

Yes, but if a deck is not good just because it can be hinder by a two card combo, then Froggy First Turn Kill deck never would have been used.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-07-31, 18:02

Also, I've seen people have counter-measures towards those cards. Any regular thing you sided against GK's is what works just as fine with any other Anti-Meta means.

Game 1, we have it. We've done it, and it ends pretty fast with or without Card Destruction.

Game 2 I'm willing to admit is challenging, but with the right side-deck, the game is ours.

**dest** 2011-07-31, 18:10

Badass_Bunny wrote:Infernities needed an empty hand and card effects and look how that turned out

Make your hand empty is easy (set every s/t and the remaining monsters (if any) can go with grepher...)

Also, at least morphing jar can be searched with sangan, for that awsome card alone it is worth to run him. Seriously: Morphing Jar + Virus = seeing not only the 3 (or perhaps 1-2 more due to dw dealings) cards your opponent draws but also the 5 from jar, that alone is worth running it.
And if you've already got it you can just search broww (some also actually run raven for an easy level 8 synchro Wink

) or use it for the field effect^^

And I've never said they are bad, I only listed the problems^^
What I said is, they are not as "unbeatable" as some other decks Wink

**aquabass** 2011-08-13, 03:37

Johnny Raptor wrote:Also, I've seen people have counter-measures towards those cards. Any regular thing you sided against GK's is what works just as fine with any other Anti-Meta means.

Game 1, we have it. We've done it, and it ends pretty fast with or without Card Destruction.

Game 2 I'm willing to admit is challenging, but with the right side-deck, the game is ours.

Lol I'll have to agree with Johnny its not to bad to get around it. Its kinda like a Powder Keg if you can cut the fuse you'll just destroy the deck o.o

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-13, 10:35

Hell, GK's found a way to kill our Field Spell and our discard outlets. Goddamned Gravekeepers Watcher. >___>

**VayneQ** 2011-08-13, 10:54

except that watcher can't be activated in the damage step, which is why Darkworld's were maining Brron, Mad King of dark world.

Reasons why, Probably a BKSS.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-13, 11:33

Bronn's pretty meh, so I dunno about that.

**VayneQ** 2011-08-13, 14:32

He's hardcore meh,
He's almost Garbage level, but somehow the OCG players were squeezing him into their decks and winning with them.

Its cause they aren't pro and don't have Skull Meister there until september

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-13, 14:43

VayneQ wrote:He's hardcore meh,
He's almost Garbage level, but somehow the OCG players were squeezing him into their decks and winning with them.

Its cause they aren't pro and don't have Skull Meister there until september

...somewhere, Debunk is crying...

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-13, 14:59

Debunk is nice, but it's also nice to have extra security that cannot be smacked by Seven Tools or stopped preemptively by Royal Decree.

**Goddess nX** 2011-08-13, 15:33

BobaFett2 wrote:Right now in Japan Dark Worlds are one the four strongest decks in their meta (along with Six Samurai, Agents, and something else, probably T.G.). I can imagine that Dark Worlds will also be one of the top decks in the TCG meta as well, considering how amazing Grapha, Snow, and Gate make them.

Japan's Doppelplants are strong as well. But DW is starting to top a lot over here :/

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-13, 15:35

Goddess nX wrote:
BobaFett2 wrote:Right now in Japan Dark Worlds are one the four strongest decks in their meta (along with Six Samurai, Agents, and something else, probably T.G.). I can imagine that Dark Worlds will also be one of the top decks in the TCG meta as well, considering how amazing Grapha, Snow, and Gate make them.
Japan's Doppelplants are strong as well. But DW is starting to top a lot over here :/

This just goes to show that if a Yu-Gi-Oh! protagonist keeps using situation-specific cards, eventually, one of them will be useful.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-13, 18:49

...A protagonist actually used Dark Worlds?

My Mind=Blown.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-13, 18:57

Johnny Raptor wrote:...A protagonist actually used Dark Worlds?

My Mind=Blown.

Actually, I was speaking of Doppel Warrior, but, yes, Dark Worlds were used in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-13, 18:59

Potus-Mat wrote:
Johnny Raptor wrote:...A protagonist actually used Dark Worlds?

My Mind=Blown.
Actually, I was speaking of Doppel Warrior, but, yes, Dark Worlds were used in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX.

But it wasn't by a protagonist. Penguin Soldier

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-22, 22:22

Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-22, 22:28

Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.

Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-22, 22:33

Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-22, 22:46

Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.

Wow. First of all, I must do something I rarely do: apologize. I misjudged you. No troll is that call in the face of insult; you are merely arrogant, as the best of us are. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the alleviation of Judgment Dragon, Necro Guardna, and Black Luster Soldier's restrictions, in conjunction with the power vaccuum that Plants and WATER decks left and the new forces of Zephyros and Grow-Up Bulb, as well as, I would suppose, the inevitable support of LIGHT monsters from Kaito's status as a main character, and the fact that the Black Booster Pack, Order Of Chaos, is near, as well as the inevitable LIGHT-themed White Booster Pack, will bring Chaos near.

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-22, 22:52

Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.
Wow. First of all, I must do something I rarely do: apologize. I misjudged you. No troll is that call in the face of insult; you are merely arrogant, as the best of us are. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the alleviation of Judgment Dragon, Necro Guardna, and Black Luster Soldier's restrictions, in conjunction with the power vaccuum that Plants and WATER decks left and the new forces of Zephyros and Grow-Up Bulb, as well as, I would suppose, the inevitable support of LIGHT monsters from Kaito's status as a main character, and the fact that the Black Booster Pack, Order Of Chaos, is near, as well as the inevitable LIGHT-themed White Booster Pack, will bring Chaos near.

I've been called arrogant before. Doesnt phase me in the least considering people that have tried to use insults against me before and ended up looking like fools for it. You are welcome to your opinion.

Photon Shockwave will get a boost to the light end of Chaos decks mid way through the format and Order of Chaos will probably do its share to give overall boosts to Chaos as an theme as well as help Darks. Either way, I'm going to be optimistic for the chances of DW and still try to encourage better play with the deck.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-22, 23:04

Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.
Wow. First of all, I must do something I rarely do: apologize. I misjudged you. No troll is that call in the face of insult; you are merely arrogant, as the best of us are. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the alleviation of Judgment Dragon, Necro Guardna, and Black Luster Soldier's restrictions, in conjunction with the power vaccuum that Plants and WATER decks left and the new forces of Zephyros and Grow-Up Bulb, as well as, I would suppose, the inevitable support of LIGHT monsters from Kaito's status as a main character, and the fact that the Black Booster Pack, Order Of Chaos, is near, as well as the inevitable LIGHT-themed White Booster Pack, will bring Chaos near.

I've been called arrogant before. Doesnt phase me in the least considering people that have tried to use insults against me before and ended up looking like fools for it. You are welcome to your opinion.

Photon Shockwave will get a boost to the light end of Chaos decks mid way through the format and Order of Chaos will probably do its share to give overall boosts to Chaos as an theme as well as help Darks. Either way, I'm going to be optimistic for the chances of DW and still try to encourage better play with the deck.

Indeed. I do not deny that Dark World monsters are amazing, and indeed extremely flexible and powerful; however, I merely state that the might that is Twilight is on the horizon, and it may eclipse the Dark World, as well as force those who conform to neither to modify decks, both Main and Side, to combat both Light and Darkness. Also, this format is one of backrow hatred; and what defeats the backrow also defeats the field.

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-22, 23:16

Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.
Wow. First of all, I must do something I rarely do: apologize. I misjudged you. No troll is that call in the face of insult; you are merely arrogant, as the best of us are. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the alleviation of Judgment Dragon, Necro Guardna, and Black Luster Soldier's restrictions, in conjunction with the power vaccuum that Plants and WATER decks left and the new forces of Zephyros and Grow-Up Bulb, as well as, I would suppose, the inevitable support of LIGHT monsters from Kaito's status as a main character, and the fact that the Black Booster Pack, Order Of Chaos, is near, as well as the inevitable LIGHT-themed White Booster Pack, will bring Chaos near.

I've been called arrogant before. Doesnt phase me in the least considering people that have tried to use insults against me before and ended up looking like fools for it. You are welcome to your opinion.

Photon Shockwave will get a boost to the light end of Chaos decks mid way through the format and Order of Chaos will probably do its share to give overall boosts to Chaos as an theme as well as help Darks. Either way, I'm going to be optimistic for the chances of DW and still try to encourage better play with the deck.
Indeed. I do not deny that Dark World monsters are amazing, and indeed extremely flexible and powerful; however, I merely state that the might that is Twilight is on the horizon, and it may eclipse the Dark World, as well as force those who conform to neither to modify decks, both Main and Side, to combat both Light and Darkness. Also, this format is one of backrow hatred; and what defeats the backrow also defeats the field.

My main doubts with Twilight this format is with its consistency. It does not have half of what made it the juggernaut everyone assumes it will be come again.

That being said, I still see it garnering a few spots in the spotlight since it will be getting a little help from Photon Shockwave (mid TCG format). Order of Chaos is what really has my attention right now because I want to see what else it has to bring besides possible mediocre Chaos upgrades for monsters like King Hope.

~~Either way I will have my article for DW up within the hour after I take care of all the formatting.~~

Scratch that. The forum set up is sabotaging my ability to post the article properly. Have to wait until next week to post it.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-22, 23:29

Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:Oh lordy.

I need to bring my DW Guide here because so many people her make me want to slap babies. Soon as I update it for the upcoming format, this forum gets its first look at DW from a good player's perpective.
Wow. This makes, what, thirty people who think they know better than everyone else?
Anyway, with Twilight on the horizon, I think more Dark-hatred will worm itself into people's Side Decks. Darkworlds may face trouble due to this.

I dont doubt that there will be some more hate for Dark and Light in the coming format. The thing is that there is still a decent chance at having more than a RPS format.

Also I've been playing with DW and Fabled for about a year and a half. Unlike some of the other people that claim they know better, I at least have the experience to make a proper opinion on the cards and deck.
Wow. First of all, I must do something I rarely do: apologize. I misjudged you. No troll is that call in the face of insult; you are merely arrogant, as the best of us are. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that the alleviation of Judgment Dragon, Necro Guardna, and Black Luster Soldier's restrictions, in conjunction with the power vaccuum that Plants and WATER decks left and the new forces of Zephyros and Grow-Up Bulb, as well as, I would suppose, the inevitable support of LIGHT monsters from Kaito's status as a main character, and the fact that the Black Booster Pack, Order Of Chaos, is near, as well as the inevitable LIGHT-themed White Booster Pack, will bring Chaos near.

I've been called arrogant before. Doesnt phase me in the least considering people that have tried to use insults against me before and ended up looking like fools for it. You are welcome to your opinion.

Photon Shockwave will get a boost to the light end of Chaos decks mid way through the format and Order of Chaos will probably do its share to give overall boosts to Chaos as an theme as well as help Darks. Either way, I'm going to be optimistic for the chances of DW and still try to encourage better play with the deck.
Indeed. I do not deny that Dark World monsters are amazing, and indeed extremely flexible and powerful; however, I merely state that the might that is Twilight is on the horizon, and it may eclipse the Dark World, as well as force those who conform to neither to modify decks, both Main and Side, to combat both Light and Darkness. Also, this format is one of backrow hatred; and what defeats the backrow also defeats the field.

My main doubts with Twilight this format is with its consistency. It does not have half of what made it the juggernaut everyone assumes it will be come again.

That being said, I still see it garnering a few spots in the spotlight since it will be getting a little help from Photon Shockwave (mid TCG format). Order of Chaos is what really has my attention right now because I want to see what else it has to bring besides possible mediocre Chaos upgrades for monsters like King Hope.

Either way I will have my article for DW up within the hour after I take care of all the formatting.

True, Chaos is not consistent (hence the name "Chaos"), but it has several tools it did not have last time, foremost being Pot Of Duality. Also, while I have built my own Chaos deck, I imagine the ability to use four different monsters of ungodly power out of nowhere (JD, CS, DAD, BLS), along with the mentality of Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon, both of which gain power from the milling power that Chaos decks are know for, still lingering, Chaos might just have enough new toys to be a serious pain, especially with the Counter Traps that could stop them are endangered by the Unlimiting of MST and the unbanning of Heavy Storm.

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-22, 23:44

Potus-Mat wrote:True, Chaos is not consistent (hence the name "Chaos"), but it has several tools it did not have last time, foremost being Pot Of Duality. Also, while I have built my own Chaos deck, I imagine the ability to use four different monsters of ungodly power out of nowhere (JD, CS, DAD, BLS), along with the mentality of Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon, both of which gain power from the milling power that Chaos decks are know for, still lingering, Chaos might just have enough new toys to be a serious pain, especially with the Counter Traps that could stop them are endangered by the Unlimiting of MST and the unbanning of Heavy Storm.

There is a slight flaw in the thoughts you have in regards to the so called 'out of nowhere' monsters. 1 of which is restricted to a single archetype and the other has a summoning condition that needs to be played around. Sorcerer also isnt as ungodly as you believe it is as I have seen it come in one turn and leave in favor of just using its effect and becoming synchro fodder to make Arcanite or one of the useful Level 8 Synchros.

Also the banlist effectively put Plants in an extremely tight spot to work with, as the core part of their engine has been reduced to nothing but one offs. I dont see the plant engine being that effective unless its coupled with something like the TourGan engine which effectively not only makes Chaos mildly viable in any deck that can support that engine, but also gives access to the rest of the deck besides the Veilers that tend to follow along with TourGan set up.

When it comes Dark World in the upcoming format, I see the smart use of Gate being key to the deck's success since most decks minimum will have Heavy and 2 MST if not maining a full set of 3. Theme support destruction is also something that should be disregarded either. The one upside that I like is that Dark World, at least how I played it and how others I have seen take to the deck, do not main a large amount of sets and anyone eager to set in the new format will find themselves being picked at with DW Lightning and watching you either pick them apart or gaining advantage over them faster than they can grind it down.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-22, 23:57

Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:True, Chaos is not consistent (hence the name "Chaos"), but it has several tools it did not have last time, foremost being Pot Of Duality. Also, while I have built my own Chaos deck, I imagine the ability to use four different monsters of ungodly power out of nowhere (JD, CS, DAD, BLS), along with the mentality of Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon, both of which gain power from the milling power that Chaos decks are know for, still lingering, Chaos might just have enough new toys to be a serious pain, especially with the Counter Traps that could stop them are endangered by the Unlimiting of MST and the unbanning of Heavy Storm.

There is a slight flaw in the thoughts you have in regards to the so called 'out of nowhere' monsters. 1 of which is restricted to a single archetype and the other has a summoning condition that needs to be played around. Sorcerer also isnt as ungodly as you believe it is as I have seen it come in one turn and leave in favor of just using its effect and becoming synchro fodder to make Arcanite or one of the useful Level 8 Synchros.

Also the banlist effectively put Plants in an extremely tight spot to work with, as the core part of their engine has been reduced to nothing but one offs. I dont see the plant engine being that effective unless its coupled with something like the TourGan engine which effectively not only makes Chaos mildly viable in any deck that can support that engine, but also gives access to the rest of the deck besides the Veilers that tend to follow along with TourGan set up.

When it comes Dark World in the upcoming format, I see the smart use of Gate being key to the deck's success since most decks minimum will have Heavy and 2 MST if not maining a full set of 3. Theme support destruction is also something that should be disregarded either. The one upside that I like is that Dark World, at least how I played it and how others I have seen take to the deck, do not main a large amount of sets and anyone eager to set in the new format will find themselves being picked at with DW Lightning and watching you either pick them apart or gaining advantage over them faster than they can grind it down.

While what you say is indeed true...
The archtype JD is limited to also happens to be the main milling engine for the deck.
While DAD is somewhat situation-specific, the ability to banish DARKs to summon Chaos monsters helps set up openings for this evil.
While CS is not an almighty God, the removal of a card with no card-economy cost and the ability to open up to, as you suggested, Arcanite Magician, cannot be underestimated.
While the Tour Guide engine may not work consistently in this deck, it may be enough of an incentive to run Pot Of Avarice, providing more draw power (plus, now that it is Limited, people will run it just because it is Limited).
While I do not dismiss the power of the Dark World, I simply have... unpleasant memories of the Twilight era. Ultimately, I believe the Meta may be just as difficult to predict as world-wide economy, something no human seems to have done. Ever.

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-23, 00:04

Potus-Mat wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:True, Chaos is not consistent (hence the name "Chaos"), but it has several tools it did not have last time, foremost being Pot Of Duality. Also, while I have built my own Chaos deck, I imagine the ability to use four different monsters of ungodly power out of nowhere (JD, CS, DAD, BLS), along with the mentality of Junk Synchron and Debris Dragon, both of which gain power from the milling power that Chaos decks are know for, still lingering, Chaos might just have enough new toys to be a serious pain, especially with the Counter Traps that could stop them are endangered by the Unlimiting of MST and the unbanning of Heavy Storm.

There is a slight flaw in the thoughts you have in regards to the so called 'out of nowhere' monsters. 1 of which is restricted to a single archetype and the other has a summoning condition that needs to be played around. Sorcerer also isnt as ungodly as you believe it is as I have seen it come in one turn and leave in favor of just using its effect and becoming synchro fodder to make Arcanite or one of the useful Level 8 Synchros.

Also the banlist effectively put Plants in an extremely tight spot to work with, as the core part of their engine has been reduced to nothing but one offs. I dont see the plant engine being that effective unless its coupled with something like the TourGan engine which effectively not only makes Chaos mildly viable in any deck that can support that engine, but also gives access to the rest of the deck besides the Veilers that tend to follow along with TourGan set up.

When it comes Dark World in the upcoming format, I see the smart use of Gate being key to the deck's success since most decks minimum will have Heavy and 2 MST if not maining a full set of 3. Theme support destruction is also something that should be disregarded either. The one upside that I like is that Dark World, at least how I played it and how others I have seen take to the deck, do not main a large amount of sets and anyone eager to set in the new format will find themselves being picked at with DW Lightning and watching you either pick them apart or gaining advantage over them faster than they can grind it down.
While what you say is indeed true...
The archtype JD is limited to also happens to be the main milling engine for the deck.
While DAD is somewhat situation-specific, the ability to banish DARKs to summon Chaos monsters helps set up openings for this evil.
While CS is not an almighty God, the removal of a card with no card-economy cost and the ability to open up to, as you suggested, Arcanite Magician, cannot be underestimated.
While the Tour Guide engine may not work consistently in this deck, it may be enough of an incentive to run Pot Of Avarice, providing more draw power (plus, now that it is Limited, people will run it just because it is Limited).
While I do not dismiss the power of the Dark World, I simply have... unpleasant memories of the Twilight era. Ultimately, I believe the Meta may be just as difficult to predict as world-wide economy, something no human seems to have done. Ever.

Have to vehemently disagree with Tour Guide not working well with Dark World. The engine itself is already half built and thoroughly enabled with plenty of searchable targets for Sangan. Tour Guide itself can grab Broww to enable the summon of Grapha and put Broww in hand to be discarded to get draw from its effect. In the very worst case with Tour Guide, it will grab itself, thin the deck further, and make Leviair (to summon anythign RFG'd by Gate or summoning BLS) or Leviathan if you have not already summoned it and put down a 2500-3000k monster to beat down on someone with.

**Potus-Mat** 2011-08-23, 00:05

No, I meant that Tour Guide would not work well in Chaos. Oh, how I have been murdered by Dark Worlds using Tour Guide...

**Tsunayoshi** 2011-08-23, 00:11

Potus-Mat wrote:No, I meant that Tour Guide would not work well in Chaos. Oh, how I have been murdered by Dark Worlds using Tour Guide...

Once again I have to disagree with you. TourGan can make up a solid core for any deck that wants to make use of Chaos.

3 Tour Guide, Sangan, 2-3 Veiler, BLS. You now have all you need to support using one of the most powerful cards to ever be printed.

Now once you take the deck building into account, you can end up with more than enough support to make a true Chaos deck.

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