Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
+9
Tsunayoshi
3E-hero neos
Squiddy
DestroyerJS
Martia-chan
Amy Cool
Chaos_Blaze
testing678
DragunityTurbo
13 posters
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Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
With the upcoming release of the zexal structure deck "Gates of the Underworld" or "Devil's Gate" the new budget for returning, or joining anew to yugioh has become a measly 30 dollars (give or take depending on store location, this also includes sleeves). For those of you who don't know, this is quite low. However not only is it extremely budget, which any deck can pull off really, but it is the speed and ability of the deck that is baffling. Dark World not only has the ability to swarm, but with one of the new cards in the structure deck "Grapha, Dragon Lord/God of Dark World" It has complete control over the field. Lets take a look at the structure deck and I will explain the cards you will need to get started:
Okay so out of the 40 cards we will only want 6 different monsters, 5 spells (some limited), and 3 traps (can add in other reprints for extra budget but more competitiveness) these cards are:
Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
Snow Unlight of Dark World
Broww Huntsman of Dark World
Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
The Gates of Dark World
Dark World Dealings
Dark World Lightning
Allure of Darkness
Card Destruction
Deck Devastation Virus
Dark Bribe
Mind Crush
I say these cards are the ones needed for good reason, and not to mention my experience in this game, HOWEVER allow me to explain them. Grapha is a staple at 3 in EVERY dark world deck, even if it is a bad dark world deck, and so is Snoww. What Grapha does, is destroy 1 card on the field when he is discarded. With this alone, he is an obviously amazing card but he has an additional effect which is to bring himself back endlessly by simply bouncing a dark world on the field to hand (except another grapha). With this, we will constantly have our boss monster out, especially with all the field swarming a Dark World deck does. The next card is Snoww, Unlight of Dark World. What this amazing 4 star does is: When discarded you can add ANY card from your deck with "Dark World" in its name (which means it is NOT limited to monsters, but free to reign over spells and traps as well. although I know not of a dark world trap)This is amazing for not only searching for crucial cards from the deck, but is also gate fodder (explained later) and a deck thinner (search for another dark world dealings, use it again, search again, repeat, then get the card needed). Now at this point, you are probably asking "If field control is so important, why not run Gren the Tactition of Dark world or Kahkki?" This is because 1. Once in the graveyard, are dead (Unlike Grapha) and 2.If you cannot discard them, they are useless AKA you cannot summon it and attack for any decent damage, or run threats over. So onward to the next cards (which i will do at once since they all do the same thing) Beiige, Goldd, and Sillva which swarm the field when discarded. You can also normal summon beiige for Grapha fodder (return to hand to SS grapha). The last monster in the list of needed cards is Broww, the extra draw power, and main gate fodder of the deck. He is also Grapha fodder and has decent attack when needed.
So lets start on the needed spell cards: First up The Gates of Dark World, second best field spell to Dragon Ravine. What Gate does is, allow you to remove from play the dead fiends in your grave, and discard a fiend AND draw a card (essentially special summoning a monster from hand, or destroying a card/Grapha)
the next 2 spells are Dark World Dealings and Dark World Lightning. 2 Staple Dark World spells that discard cards. Lightning destroys a facedown card, and dealings draws a card (both discarding afterwards). Card Destruction is self explanatory, discarding the entire hand is majorly beneficial especially when your hand is full of monsters. the last spell card is Allure of darkness and even though we can only run 1 it is still extra draw power and not to mention comes free with the deck.
Most players would question my choice of trap cards because they are not usual, but the deck oddly works with these to replace un-affordable solemn warnings and solemn judgment. The first trap is Dark Bribe. This works well in dark world decks instead of solemn warning because most of your monsters will be bigger than your opponents, and dark bribe will protect spell and traps that hinder your play. Mind Crush and Deck Devastation Virus work AMAZINGLY together, especially since Grapha is over 2000 along with the goldd and sillva meaning you always have a target. Mind Crush is nice to use, even when you dont know what is in your opponents hand to discard your own monsters, or to protect from Gorz or Battle Fader. EG: If you are going to attack directly for game, activate mind crush and see if they have Gorz FIRST as to not ruin the game for yourself.
So after buying 3 structure decks, your deck should look like this
Monsters:18
x3 Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
x3 Snoww Unlight of Dark World
x3 Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
x3 Broww Huntsman of Dark World
x3 Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
x3 Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Spells:11
x3 Dark World Dealings
x3 The Gates of Dark World
x3 Dark World Lightning
x1 Card Destruction
x1 Allure of Darkness
Traps:5
x2 Dark Bribe
x2 Mind Crush
x1 Deck Devastation Virus
Obviously the deck isnt 40 cards as of yet but to do so, go over to your local card shop and pick up some 20 cent staple cards like mystical space typhoon, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, and Heavy Storm. The finished deck will look like this:
Monsters:18
x3 Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
x3 Snoww Unlight of Dark World
x3 Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
x3 Broww Huntsman of Dark World
x3 Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
x3 Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Spells:17
x3 Dark World Dealings
x3 The Gates of Dark World
x3 Dark World Lightning
x1 Card Destruction
x1 Allure of Darkness
x3 Mystical Space Typhoon
x1 Dark Hole
x1 Heavy Storm
x1 Monster Reborn
Traps:5
x2 Dark Bribe
x2 Mind Crush
x1 Deck Devastation Virus
Now enjoy your 30$ Tier 1 deck.
Okay so out of the 40 cards we will only want 6 different monsters, 5 spells (some limited), and 3 traps (can add in other reprints for extra budget but more competitiveness) these cards are:
Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
Snow Unlight of Dark World
Broww Huntsman of Dark World
Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
The Gates of Dark World
Dark World Dealings
Dark World Lightning
Allure of Darkness
Card Destruction
Deck Devastation Virus
Dark Bribe
Mind Crush
I say these cards are the ones needed for good reason, and not to mention my experience in this game, HOWEVER allow me to explain them. Grapha is a staple at 3 in EVERY dark world deck, even if it is a bad dark world deck, and so is Snoww. What Grapha does, is destroy 1 card on the field when he is discarded. With this alone, he is an obviously amazing card but he has an additional effect which is to bring himself back endlessly by simply bouncing a dark world on the field to hand (except another grapha). With this, we will constantly have our boss monster out, especially with all the field swarming a Dark World deck does. The next card is Snoww, Unlight of Dark World. What this amazing 4 star does is: When discarded you can add ANY card from your deck with "Dark World" in its name (which means it is NOT limited to monsters, but free to reign over spells and traps as well. although I know not of a dark world trap)This is amazing for not only searching for crucial cards from the deck, but is also gate fodder (explained later) and a deck thinner (search for another dark world dealings, use it again, search again, repeat, then get the card needed). Now at this point, you are probably asking "If field control is so important, why not run Gren the Tactition of Dark world or Kahkki?" This is because 1. Once in the graveyard, are dead (Unlike Grapha) and 2.If you cannot discard them, they are useless AKA you cannot summon it and attack for any decent damage, or run threats over. So onward to the next cards (which i will do at once since they all do the same thing) Beiige, Goldd, and Sillva which swarm the field when discarded. You can also normal summon beiige for Grapha fodder (return to hand to SS grapha). The last monster in the list of needed cards is Broww, the extra draw power, and main gate fodder of the deck. He is also Grapha fodder and has decent attack when needed.
So lets start on the needed spell cards: First up The Gates of Dark World, second best field spell to Dragon Ravine. What Gate does is, allow you to remove from play the dead fiends in your grave, and discard a fiend AND draw a card (essentially special summoning a monster from hand, or destroying a card/Grapha)
the next 2 spells are Dark World Dealings and Dark World Lightning. 2 Staple Dark World spells that discard cards. Lightning destroys a facedown card, and dealings draws a card (both discarding afterwards). Card Destruction is self explanatory, discarding the entire hand is majorly beneficial especially when your hand is full of monsters. the last spell card is Allure of darkness and even though we can only run 1 it is still extra draw power and not to mention comes free with the deck.
Most players would question my choice of trap cards because they are not usual, but the deck oddly works with these to replace un-affordable solemn warnings and solemn judgment. The first trap is Dark Bribe. This works well in dark world decks instead of solemn warning because most of your monsters will be bigger than your opponents, and dark bribe will protect spell and traps that hinder your play. Mind Crush and Deck Devastation Virus work AMAZINGLY together, especially since Grapha is over 2000 along with the goldd and sillva meaning you always have a target. Mind Crush is nice to use, even when you dont know what is in your opponents hand to discard your own monsters, or to protect from Gorz or Battle Fader. EG: If you are going to attack directly for game, activate mind crush and see if they have Gorz FIRST as to not ruin the game for yourself.
So after buying 3 structure decks, your deck should look like this
Monsters:18
x3 Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
x3 Snoww Unlight of Dark World
x3 Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
x3 Broww Huntsman of Dark World
x3 Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
x3 Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Spells:11
x3 Dark World Dealings
x3 The Gates of Dark World
x3 Dark World Lightning
x1 Card Destruction
x1 Allure of Darkness
Traps:5
x2 Dark Bribe
x2 Mind Crush
x1 Deck Devastation Virus
Obviously the deck isnt 40 cards as of yet but to do so, go over to your local card shop and pick up some 20 cent staple cards like mystical space typhoon, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, and Heavy Storm. The finished deck will look like this:
Monsters:18
x3 Grapha Dragon Lord of Dark World
x3 Snoww Unlight of Dark World
x3 Beiige Vanguard of Dark World
x3 Broww Huntsman of Dark World
x3 Goldd Wu-Lord of Dark World
x3 Sillva Warlord of Dark World
Spells:17
x3 Dark World Dealings
x3 The Gates of Dark World
x3 Dark World Lightning
x1 Card Destruction
x1 Allure of Darkness
x3 Mystical Space Typhoon
x1 Dark Hole
x1 Heavy Storm
x1 Monster Reborn
Traps:5
x2 Dark Bribe
x2 Mind Crush
x1 Deck Devastation Virus
Now enjoy your 30$ Tier 1 deck.
DragunityTurbo- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-08-21
Simply Wow! =P
Thank you for the Dark World budget deck idea! =P
Can you do a budget counter fairy deck?
Sincerely,
testing678
Can you do a budget counter fairy deck?
Sincerely,
testing678
testing678- Posts : 2
Join date : 2011-10-14
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
unfortunately I dont have enough experience with counter-fairies to make a budget deck of them, however i may make one after i have learned about them a bit
DragunityTurbo- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-08-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Your lack of Dragged Down into the Grave depresses me.
Chaos_Blaze- Posts : 101
Birthday : 1991-07-10
Join date : 2011-05-25
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
you must get depressed at alot of things then. dragged down to the grave is just not a good card unless your hand is ALL dark world monsters. the only thing it would do is allow me to see my opponents hand (although the opponent would see mine also) and discard a pest and not to mention I didn't see it in the structure deck which is where I got most of the cards (because its a budget build)
DragunityTurbo- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-08-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Dragged Down to the Grave should be in every serious DW deck and also in a budget build. Great budget deck can't be made just for buying Structure deck alone, of course you have to include some other important cards exactly as this one. The card is just too good not to be in at least 2x. Main problem of DW is balance between monsters and discarding cards so that you always keep flowing through your deck. Dragged helps a lot and not to mention the fact you don't use Raven or Sangan or Tour Guide which makes things easier for you to use Dragged. All cards except DWs in your deck can be set down so the remaining ones are always good to discard. It does not matter what you discard if you have good choice of monsters in your deck. Good DW player will always know how to deal with Dragged. Main advantages why you should always include it are that you keep drawing which is essential even with so many draw power DW cards. Once you get stuck its hard to win that duel and recover with no Tour Guide or Morphing Jar. Just because of this as your main threat u should always have it in here. Then you see opponents hand and his future moves too, also discarding his ace card in hand that could make you big troubles is just too pro. Then as a desert you will discard a DW no matter which one since everyone will make you just more advantage. For opponent seeing your cards is not so important since he can't do much to stop you once you are dancing with the wolves DWs can bring very fast whatever they want from deck so its not hard for your opponent to guess your moves and hand even without looking at it. Dragged just looks that it has disadvantages but it doesn't in a DW deck. If you get it dead and not useful then its your deck that is bad and not this card. No hard feelings and you still did good job on this budget deck
Amy Cool- Posts : 237
Join date : 2011-05-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Thanks for your serious input, I'll test it out on DN
DragunityTurbo- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-08-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
I'm glad you will try it out because you have fun with DWs and with this card you will have even more fun for sure.
One of the best combos with it and 99% a game finisher (its because in the time of pulling it you will already have advantage over your opponent and this will cut their last hope of return) is to use Celri and discard Sillva so that your opponent sends 2 cards from his hand to deck. Of course they will send less important ones so that remaining ones can combine and make a return for them. But they don't realize the next card will be Dragged and their ace card in hand that could bring their game back is gone. Of course I'm speaking when your opponent has a lot of cards in hand and nothing on the field to negate Sillva or Celri. As it looks now, its hard to pull but if you play a lot with DWs you will realize that you can do exactly the same thing quite frequently with just 1x Celri in your deck. Reason for this is flow of good DW deck, it can draw deeply into its deck and with Gate even manipulate what cards it will get to hand. Its not a combo you will aim for but more a combo that will pop out time to time by itself. Have fun and remember key for winning a duel does not only lie in cards, it lies in concentration of a duelist too. In other words get on their nerves with Dragged and let the anger ruin their concentration so that you can manipulate things and win. This differs a real player from an autopilot one
One of the best combos with it and 99% a game finisher (its because in the time of pulling it you will already have advantage over your opponent and this will cut their last hope of return) is to use Celri and discard Sillva so that your opponent sends 2 cards from his hand to deck. Of course they will send less important ones so that remaining ones can combine and make a return for them. But they don't realize the next card will be Dragged and their ace card in hand that could bring their game back is gone. Of course I'm speaking when your opponent has a lot of cards in hand and nothing on the field to negate Sillva or Celri. As it looks now, its hard to pull but if you play a lot with DWs you will realize that you can do exactly the same thing quite frequently with just 1x Celri in your deck. Reason for this is flow of good DW deck, it can draw deeply into its deck and with Gate even manipulate what cards it will get to hand. Its not a combo you will aim for but more a combo that will pop out time to time by itself. Have fun and remember key for winning a duel does not only lie in cards, it lies in concentration of a duelist too. In other words get on their nerves with Dragged and let the anger ruin their concentration so that you can manipulate things and win. This differs a real player from an autopilot one
Amy Cool- Posts : 237
Join date : 2011-05-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
I don't mean to offend anyone. But that budget build is rather bad in my opinion.
I can't write something as detailed as Amy Cool, right now because I don't have the time, but Goldd, Sillva, are rather bad in DWs.
I can't write something as detailed as Amy Cool, right now because I don't have the time, but Goldd, Sillva, are rather bad in DWs.
Martia-chan- Posts : 77
Join date : 2011-10-16
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
i agree that they arent good due to being dead if you have no discard outlet. but theyre the structure deck has to offer which is what i was trying to base the budget build on, so players can do similar to machina and just buy 3 structure decks.
DragunityTurbo- Posts : 14
Join date : 2011-08-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Really appreciate this Dragunity Turbo, and great input by Amy Cool, I have been playing around with Dark World on Duelling Network and it has been going well so I am considering making a deck in RL following this build.
DestroyerJS- Posts : 3
Join date : 2011-10-04
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
y do u have 3 darck world dealings???? fail
y do u have N E goldd???? fail
Y DO U HAVE N E SILLVA????
y do u hav viruses?!?!?
fail .......
a budgit darck world deck is easy to make just use skil drain over tour guids but dont be using 3 dealings or goldd n silva liek this guy
lol at his post about experience
y do u have N E goldd???? fail
Y DO U HAVE N E SILLVA????
y do u hav viruses?!?!?
fail .......
a budgit darck world deck is easy to make just use skil drain over tour guids but dont be using 3 dealings or goldd n silva liek this guy
lol at his post about experience
Squiddy- Posts : 94
Join date : 2011-08-08
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Uhh....budget building can be done in multiple ways, and he showed us one way, if you have another then give ideas, don't offend >.>. Seriously, ideas are welcome but that's different then trying to insult someone.
Anyway, nice idea of budget building, some of us do have a life and don't spend all our money on small pieces of cardboard so this should help for people. If they want to edit it, they can, just depends on the size of their budget. Like if they want Morhping Jar, then buy it if you have the budget for it(it's affordable but okay).
But in my opinion, it's easy to get good DW cards with the SD but if you really want to budget build, just don't buy Tour Guides, or Fabled Raven(about 40 dollar). But this is a decent enough skeletton build to start with.
+Rep for helping people!
Anyway, nice idea of budget building, some of us do have a life and don't spend all our money on small pieces of cardboard so this should help for people. If they want to edit it, they can, just depends on the size of their budget. Like if they want Morhping Jar, then buy it if you have the budget for it(it's affordable but okay).
But in my opinion, it's easy to get good DW cards with the SD but if you really want to budget build, just don't buy Tour Guides, or Fabled Raven(about 40 dollar). But this is a decent enough skeletton build to start with.
+Rep for helping people!
3E-hero neos- Posts : 1081
Birthday : 1995-06-08
Join date : 2011-05-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Agree with Neos here. No one is saying he has the best build of a budget deck and that is why I did not interfere and comment his build in general but gave advice on a necessary card. Its not nice to ruin peoples hard work. Everyone learns and so he will in time but your comment Squiddy won't make anything constructive. In fact people like you failed all in YCS with DW with their wrong thoughts. If you think you can do better go and show us proof.
Amy Cool- Posts : 237
Join date : 2011-05-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Giuseppe and Amy should both be ashamed for suggesting that Dragged down should be mandatory main decks in DW. The card is dreadfully inefficient at doing anything and not only needs to be set up, via removing cards from your hand that you do not want removed, and also needs to be backed up by cards like Mind Crush to capitalize on the hand intel that you get.
The card really should not be mained as it is not a great choice either for decks that build for the mirror match or build without the consern for the mirror match.
The card really should not be mained as it is not a great choice either for decks that build for the mirror match or build without the consern for the mirror match.
Tsunayoshi- Posts : 1915
Birthday : 1987-09-27
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
^this is why people that understand math (more precisely statistics) will always know better what cards are good and what bad in a deck. No offense to you but saying that I should be ashamed without good arguments makes you look bad in general.
Dragged Down to the Grave in a DW deck used by a player who understands its flow.
1. You are always prepared when you use this card and your opponent just cant be prepared to that.
2. You see all cards in opponents hand. This makes your moves adapted to his cards giving you HUGE advantage. KCVDS Cheat was the ultimate proof of this (people who used it know what I mean). You simply do play better when you know opponents cards. Opponent does see all cards in your hand. Obviously in the time you play it you will have all DWs in hand. Other cards you simply set. Only card that opponent can waste from DWs u use is Grapha when there is nothing to destroy on the field (but mostly, there will be something-statistics). Even if that happens, Grapha in grave is still a plus for you. So by this all, its obvious that discarding a card from your hand will get another minus to your opponent by enabling you to use DWs effect. This IS the aim of this card.
3. You will draw a card and thin your deck. Drawing a card is all what a DW deck needs. Your opponent will draw a card too. Most people think here that both players are same on this. Its not true. You are turn's player. You can USE the card you draw mostly. Your opponent can use his card only if its some kind of Gorz or Veiler or whatsoever and still it needs to fit in the situation to be used. So, another little plus to you.
4. Having high speed draw engine (which good DW deck has) and having 3 Dragged makes your chances to draw and use it correctly very high. 3 of them and if you add DDV to spice it up enables you almost always to control your opponents hand. Mind Crush will just help there but with all this you really don't need that card too.
5. As for mirror match, you cannot make your main deck just to face mirror decks obviously. For that we have Side and thats it. Sure you can make your main one adaptive so that in one way has a bit advantage over its mirror but still Dragged has so many good arguments that its better to have it then side it if needed than not have it at all.
If these arguments mean nothing to you then you should quit playing YGO since I can surely say you will never be a good duelist - I have arguments for that.
Dragged Down to the Grave in a DW deck used by a player who understands its flow.
1. You are always prepared when you use this card and your opponent just cant be prepared to that.
2. You see all cards in opponents hand. This makes your moves adapted to his cards giving you HUGE advantage. KCVDS Cheat was the ultimate proof of this (people who used it know what I mean). You simply do play better when you know opponents cards. Opponent does see all cards in your hand. Obviously in the time you play it you will have all DWs in hand. Other cards you simply set. Only card that opponent can waste from DWs u use is Grapha when there is nothing to destroy on the field (but mostly, there will be something-statistics). Even if that happens, Grapha in grave is still a plus for you. So by this all, its obvious that discarding a card from your hand will get another minus to your opponent by enabling you to use DWs effect. This IS the aim of this card.
3. You will draw a card and thin your deck. Drawing a card is all what a DW deck needs. Your opponent will draw a card too. Most people think here that both players are same on this. Its not true. You are turn's player. You can USE the card you draw mostly. Your opponent can use his card only if its some kind of Gorz or Veiler or whatsoever and still it needs to fit in the situation to be used. So, another little plus to you.
4. Having high speed draw engine (which good DW deck has) and having 3 Dragged makes your chances to draw and use it correctly very high. 3 of them and if you add DDV to spice it up enables you almost always to control your opponents hand. Mind Crush will just help there but with all this you really don't need that card too.
5. As for mirror match, you cannot make your main deck just to face mirror decks obviously. For that we have Side and thats it. Sure you can make your main one adaptive so that in one way has a bit advantage over its mirror but still Dragged has so many good arguments that its better to have it then side it if needed than not have it at all.
If these arguments mean nothing to you then you should quit playing YGO since I can surely say you will never be a good duelist - I have arguments for that.
Amy Cool- Posts : 237
Join date : 2011-05-21
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Amy Cool wrote:^this is why people that understand math (more precisely statistics) will always know better what cards are good and what bad in a deck. No offense to you but saying that I should be ashamed without good arguments makes you look bad in general.
Dragged Down to the Grave in a DW deck used by a player who understands its flow.
1. You are always prepared when you use this card and your opponent just cant be prepared to that.
2. You see all cards in opponents hand. This makes your moves adapted to his cards giving you HUGE advantage. KCVDS Cheat was the ultimate proof of this (people who used it know what I mean). You simply do play better when you know opponents cards. Opponent does see all cards in your hand. Obviously in the time you play it you will have all DWs in hand. Other cards you simply set. Only card that opponent can waste from DWs u use is Grapha when there is nothing to destroy on the field (but mostly, there will be something-statistics). Even if that happens, Grapha in grave is still a plus for you. So by this all, its obvious that discarding a card from your hand will get another minus to your opponent by enabling you to use DWs effect. This IS the aim of this card.
3. You will draw a card and thin your deck. Drawing a card is all what a DW deck needs. Your opponent will draw a card too. Most people think here that both players are same on this. Its not true. You are turn's player. You can USE the card you draw mostly. Your opponent can use his card only if its some kind of Gorz or Veiler or whatsoever and still it needs to fit in the situation to be used. So, another little plus to you.
4. Having high speed draw engine (which good DW deck has) and having 3 Dragged makes your chances to draw and use it correctly very high. 3 of them and if you add DDV to spice it up enables you almost always to control your opponents hand. Mind Crush will just help there but with all this you really don't need that card too.
5. As for mirror match, you cannot make your main deck just to face mirror decks obviously. For that we have Side and thats it. Sure you can make your main one adaptive so that in one way has a bit advantage over its mirror but still Dragged has so many good arguments that its better to have it then side it if needed than not have it at all.
If these arguments mean nothing to you then you should quit playing YGO since I can surely say you will never be a good duelist - I have arguments for that.
I'll just give my two cents because people seem to only look at the pros and not the cons.
1: You are not always set up to use Dragged Down. Hand full of spell/traps has to be set or played out to set up the hand. Hand full of monsters will have the least advantageous card in hand picked. The card needs not only a set up, but a back up to capitalize on the rest of the effect.
2: You left out the part that your hand is just as well known as the opponents. Now they can play around what you have as well as you play around what they have. You gain little to no ground in being able to outplay someone without the backup of a card like Mind Crush, which can let you remove a card from the hand now that you know it by name.
3: This is the only real benefit of the card when played without anything that would allow you to capitalize. The benefit of thinning the deck by a card or two is mainly defeated by the fact that whatever is left in your hand by time you are done with your turn, can still be played around.
4: Not everyone plays that way, nor knows how to play the deck in a style most suited to their playstyle. In the situation you listed, the player would be using the deck built for control. An aggressive player, basing on assumptions, would not play a card where the opponent would have an effect on the turn out.
5: You quite plainly can build for the mirror match. To say you cant do such a thing is nothing short of showing some naivety. I, for one, have a build that minimizes any shared discards. Meaning no DWD or Dragged Down, and its still effectively fast at swarming and gaining advantage. Dragged down is not a side deck choice. Its a main or nothing deck choice. You would almost always benefit more from having something else in the side deck if you choose not to main Dragged Down, and the space that would need to be devoted to the side deck to make Dragged Down more than just another means of thinning the deck would get in the way of other side deck options that you would want to have on hand.
This is becoming even more clear considering that support like Dark Smog is going to start pushing out more of the sub par deck choices that people went to Columbus with, just due to the fact that they can do far more than give hand intel and a simple +1 from the deck.
If you really think that telling someone that has been running the deck for so long that they are not a good player, just because they have an opinion that is educated from actual experience with the deck, including the use of sub-par choices, then I do not really know what to say about you without turning this into juts another flame war.
Tsunayoshi- Posts : 1915
Birthday : 1987-09-27
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Has it ever occured to both of you that you both have equal amount of experience with the deck, and have different types of experience regarding these cards?
Some people have success with particular cards while others have none with the same.
Don't say all or nothing, just share that in your experience the cards have worked a particular way. A card that is useless to one person could be game-breaking to another.
Some people have success with particular cards while others have none with the same.
Don't say all or nothing, just share that in your experience the cards have worked a particular way. A card that is useless to one person could be game-breaking to another.
OverlordMMM- Posts : 811
Join date : 2011-05-20
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
we must also consider that cards works according to the player style, dragged down cand work in a DW control deck, but in a deck based in swarming there are better choices. Its all in what the player wants to achieve with his deck...
Hunter_13- Posts : 218
Join date : 2011-09-26
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
Btw gaiz,thought you'd see this:
http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/?p=7332
Zero Dw in columbus.
All hype after all,well where side decking is involved anyway.
http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/?p=7332
Zero Dw in columbus.
All hype after all,well where side decking is involved anyway.
mido9- Posts : 489
Join date : 2011-08-10
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
mido9 wrote:Btw gaiz,thought you'd see this:
http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/?p=7332
Zero Dw in columbus.
All hype after all,well where side decking is involved anyway.
There was a DW that would have topped. Guy was 8-0 and singled out for a deck check due to his affiliation with ARG. He admitted to having cards in a double deck box that he was using for the event that he knew should not have been in there to go ahead and take the game loss he knew he deserved. The judge came back from the deck check and DQ'd him instead for 'Attempting to deceive a judge."
Third event running now where Konami has singled out an ARG player and handed out a completely biased call against someone from that team. Ira Aeterna and Love, Hate, Cherish of ETC can both verify the story as they are both players for ARG and Ira knows the DW player in question for this story.
That said, word is that there were alot of other DW decks on the bubble and most of them lost out due to poor tiebreakers or records in general. Also making up 10% of the field showed that they didnt have the greatest share either. Either way, the decks will improve and we may see them having some considerable improvement for the next event, so discounting the poor performance of Columbus due to just hype is poor judgment at best.
Tsunayoshi- Posts : 1915
Birthday : 1987-09-27
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
This thread is horrible.
I can budget a DW build, just give me a moment.
I can budget a DW build, just give me a moment.
.:HadoukenBlue:.- Posts : 364
Birthday : 1996-12-24
Join date : 2011-08-11
Re: Budget Building At Its Best: Dark World
@Tsunayoshi
I'll say few things as a reply to your arguments.
1.)
2.)
3.)
Now lets take a look at my post and see if this argument of you is true.
4.)
5.) I will not go deeper into side decking as that is completely another thing here because it depends exactly on our main builds and current cards in game along with results from YCS. But, you are right that you can build your main deck to be ready for a mirror match. Its just that we must balance it so that we don't go too deep into it making our build more vulnerable to other meta decks. Again, making probabilities here is best thing to see where is that line of balance.
Its not always in quantity of experience its also about quality.
For one more info. The guy with 8-0 DW deck. Here is his build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj7vAIIryCA
As you can see he is using 3 Dragged Down to the Grave. More interesting, he says that according to his experience that is the number one card this format because it gives you so many advantages... Not bad for Dragged going 8-0. Means those probabilities I calculated are right about it having much more advantages than disadvantages. He is enhancing it with Mind Crush too. Means he risked on consistency but gained on extreme control of hand along with Dragged. For him and his build it proved very well as we can see. So, Mind Control will not harm too much on consistency but will prevent many big moves of your opponent if used along with Dragged.
No offense, this is all just argument based discussion. Peace.
I'll say few things as a reply to your arguments.
1.)
If you read my text carefully you can see that I was also looking for cons and explained why they are not so big as pros. But as you don't get it from now I'll use math to show you that I was right about it.Tsunayoshi wrote:I'll just give my two cents because people seem to only look at the pros and not the cons.
2.)
You try to twist it so that your cons looks so superior over the pros. Hand full of monsters...That happens rarely. Considering that average number of monsters used in a DW deck nowadays is 18, your deck size as 40 of course, getting a hand full of monsters by the theory of probability would be 0.4% in your starting hand. Everything after that is even less probable considering the fact that you can normal summon one monster and use other discarding cards of yours like Gates of DW to discard one more as turns go on. With that in mind, and that you draw less cards than at start the probability is less than in starting hand. So do you know what 0.4% means? It means in average view, by playing 100 duels most probably you won't get even once all 6 monsters in hand. Okay, 4 is also a big deal? No problem. For 4 monsters probability is 18.4%. Also very low percentage seeing it that you won't play around 100 duels in a YCS but much less (also even if it happens sometimes in so many duels in general you will do great). Okay now we will see only 2 monsters. Percentage is 29.1% which is something compared to these results before. But, your deck is 40 cards and getting only 2 monsters in opening hand (where you have best chances to draw it in whole duel-everything after that is less probable) will give you 4 S/T which means one card will for sure be something to discard a DW. Also not all of those 18 are high level monsters meaning you will probably get at least one of them that you can normal summon. As for Spells and Traps they will be 22 as we had 18 monsters. 6 S/T=1.9% and 4 S/T= 29.1%. For 2 its even ridiculous to calculate when we know that Traps will be set anyway and Spells can be also set (opponents MST can destroy one, so what, its 1 for 1 anyway). This all means this myth of yours was busted. We calculated many possible situations not only the worst one which you were referring to and came to mathematical conclusion that this bad side of Dragged will have almost no influence on your dueling. Why am I showing all these probabilities? Its because every deck can beat another deck but how frequent can it do that is called consistency. So to be able to see how consistent our deck is we had to see influence on our consistency with using Dragged. You can say you have experience but these statistics show the only truth and playing many duels with the deck will only prove these stats.Tsunayoshi wrote:1: You are not always set up to use Dragged Down. Hand full of spell/traps has to be set or played out to set up the hand. Hand full of monsters will have the least advantageous card in hand picked. The card needs not only a set up, but a back up to capitalize on the rest of the effect.
3.)
Tsunayoshi wrote:2: You left out the part that your hand is just as well known as the opponents. Now they can play around what you have as well as you play around what they have. You gain little to no ground in being able to outplay someone without the backup of a card like Mind Crush, which can let you remove a card from the hand now that you know it by name.
Now lets take a look at my post and see if this argument of you is true.
Part in orange color is explaining exactly the bad side when opponent also will see your hand. So much for that I have left out that part... In 2.) I've calculated critical points and already proved that having bad hand in these situations will rarely happen considering facts that every DW from your deck that your opponent chooses will be a plus for you to discard. Lets say you get Tour guide/Sangan + Broww + Snow + Grapha. Summon tour/sangan use Dragged (before you could also play something else like your field to possibly lower your monster count) and it does not really matter to you what will happen now. Broww will get you along with Dragged 2 cards from deck. Grapha will destroy something. Even if he does not (which happens very very rarely) he is a plus in grave for you. Snow will get you whatever you need from your deck. So for your opponent there is not much there. Even if he knows your hand what can he do lol. Knowing you have Broww he knows you could summon grapha, draw a card or let speak more general-use some DW card to discard him. Actually he does not know what will you draw if you discard Broww which gives you a plus. This is like knowing that someone has allure of darkness lol. You know much but at the same time you dont have much from it. Grapha is so splashable so your opponent will always fear him and consider you have him in hand or have snow to search him. For snow is same like broww, a simple nothing. So what more can you have, Sillva/Goldd? All those cards don't give your opponent much knowledge since you are the one who adapts things with Dragged. You are the one who sets your S/T before using it. You are the one who will play it in time (almost always). Your opponent is the one who gets surprised by it, not you. That is your plus. You always get more info about him than he gets about you by seeing each other hands. You both can play around but your style of play makes things in your favor. Most important (you always refer to that my opp can play around my cards) is that you will discard most valuable card in opponents hand (he is never ready for it) and he will discard one of the cards (or the one you want if its single in hand - happens a lot of times, especially with multiple draggeds used simultaneously) you WANT him to discard. This is A LOT OF DIFFERENCE in your favor. Just imagine, you discard his Gorz (if you want to deal mass damage that turn) or Dark Hole or Reborn or Heavy and he discards what? a snow or grapha or broww or sillva, all your benefits. So how can he play around when you also know his cards and you discarded his ace. Means he needs a "heart of the cards" top to outplay you in that advantageous situation. That is also rare to happen for him. All thi is also the answer to your 3rd argument which is almost same as your 2nd...Amy Cool wrote:2. You see all cards in opponents hand. This makes your moves adapted to his cards giving you HUGE advantage. KCVDS Cheat was the ultimate proof of this (people who used it know what I mean). You simply do play better when you know opponents cards. Opponent does see all cards in your hand. Obviously in the time you play it you will have all DWs in hand. Other cards you simply set. Only card that opponent can waste from DWs u use is Grapha when there is nothing to destroy on the field (but mostly, there will be something-statistics). Even if that happens, Grapha in grave is still a plus for you. So by this all, its obvious that discarding a card from your hand will get another minus to your opponent by enabling you to use DWs effect. This IS the aim of this card.
4.)
If someone is not good enough to play some deck on many different styles then that player is only suited for fun play. Every good player will know how to use a deck in a style most suited for it. Just Dragged and Virus won't make your playstyle a control type. Dragged is a speed engine and a discard engine which both are attributes of aggressive style. The fact that you see your opponents hand and that you can easily have >2000 DARK on field to use Virus makes you just a bonus in means of control. Still my style of DWs is very aggressive and fast. Few techs does not make a deck different in style.Tsunayoshi wrote:4: Not everyone plays that way, nor knows how to play the deck in a style most suited to their playstyle. In the situation you listed, the player would be using the deck built for control. An aggressive player, basing on assumptions, would not play a card where the opponent would have an effect on the turn out.
5.) I will not go deeper into side decking as that is completely another thing here because it depends exactly on our main builds and current cards in game along with results from YCS. But, you are right that you can build your main deck to be ready for a mirror match. Its just that we must balance it so that we don't go too deep into it making our build more vulnerable to other meta decks. Again, making probabilities here is best thing to see where is that line of balance.
Its not always in quantity of experience its also about quality.
For one more info. The guy with 8-0 DW deck. Here is his build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj7vAIIryCA
As you can see he is using 3 Dragged Down to the Grave. More interesting, he says that according to his experience that is the number one card this format because it gives you so many advantages... Not bad for Dragged going 8-0. Means those probabilities I calculated are right about it having much more advantages than disadvantages. He is enhancing it with Mind Crush too. Means he risked on consistency but gained on extreme control of hand along with Dragged. For him and his build it proved very well as we can see. So, Mind Control will not harm too much on consistency but will prevent many big moves of your opponent if used along with Dragged.
No offense, this is all just argument based discussion. Peace.
Amy Cool- Posts : 237
Join date : 2011-05-21
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