Heart of the Underdog Chain

Ok here is basically the question I have. Can if you Draw a Vanilla have 2 or even 3 Heart of the Underdogs activate and Draw for each? I know you can Draw again if you get a Vanilla on the effect, but could you Draw more than 1 if there is 2 or more on the field?

You may want to look this up but i think the answer is yes you get to draw 3 time for every vannilla you draw if you have 3 HotU on the field.

Don't they also activate during like Hand Destruction and Reckless or no? Seeing as it could be DPhase.

If you draw a single normal monster, then you can activate all the 3. However, when it comes to drawing a 2nd wave, you can only look at the last card you draw. Thats because they have optional effects, meaning that only the last event can be looked at, so if you do your draw phase & draw summoned skull, you can show it & activate all 3, say you draw la jinn, dark hole, and then mirror force, you cant activate your hearts again because the last card you drew wasnt a normal monster. It was a Mirror Force.

Gorz wrote:Don't they also activate during like Hand Destruction and Reckless or no? Seeing as it could be DPhase.

As long as hand destruction is the last chain link to be resolved, same with reckless greed and since those cards draw multiples at the same time, you can show either one. Also, even if you draw 2 normal monsters at the same time, it doesn't get you any more draws than draw only 1. That's because it's a single instance of drawing one time. That's why you can show either card you draw with reckless greed doesn't have to physically be the 2nd one that you draw.

The explanations in this thread, I feel, are a bit easy to misunderstand. I'll try to clarify. This explanation will be longer, but it will isolate EXACTLY HOW the situation breaks down, not just for Hearts, but for essentially all Trigger and Trigger-like effects.


When you control multiple copies of Heart, and the last event in the game is you drawing a Normal Monster, you can activate all the Hearts.

It's a SEGOC situation. The Hearts Chain to one another.

When resolving this chain, you will draw 1 card each time a Heart's Chain Link resolves.

If you draw a Normal Monster by resolving Chain Link 2 or higher, you cannot use that instance of drawing to trigger the activation of the Hearts.

This is because of Heart's text.

It is a Trigger-like Spell/Trap Effect with a specific activation timing. Some Trigger Effects and Trigger-like Spell/Trap Effects do not have a specific activation timing.

Trigger Effects and Trigger-like Spell/Trap effects that DO have a specific activation timing say "When". And Heart says "When".

Trigger Effects and Trigger-like Spell/Trap effects that have a specific activation timing can "Miss their activation timing." This can happen when the game gets to the proper timing, but for some reason forbids activating that effect at the proper timing.

When you are resolving a Chain involving multiple Hearts, drawing a Normal Monster means that you have hit the proper timing to activate the Hearts again.

But if you draw a Normal Monster in resolving Chain Link 2 or higher, this means that although it is the proper timing to activate the Hearts, you cannot activate the Hearts at that time.

You are currently resolving a chain, and it is against the rules of the game to activate something while a Chain is resolving.

If you draw a Normal Monster in resolving Chain Link 1, you can activate the Hearts in response to the resolution of the Chain, because the moment you resolve Chain Link 1, you are done resolving the entire Chain - making activation of Hearts a legal action.


Now, then, the reason you don't get to activate Heart if you draw a Normal Monster in Chain Link 2 is only partially explained by the above.

The remainder is simple.

Trigger Effects and Trigger-like Spell/Trap Effects don't sit back and say "oh, the rules keep you from using me? Fine, I'll wait."

They don't care about the other rules of the game. They just see you meeting the proper timing, and declining to activate them. They don't care that you're forced to decline.

For Heart, this means you just won't be activating it off of a Chain Link 2 Normal Monster draw.



Now, some Trigger Effects and Trigger-like Spell/Trap Effects are "mandatory" - this means that rather than saying "you can activate me", they just say "activate me". They don't give you a choice.

Sangan is the prime example of a mandatory Trigger Effect.

If Sangan is sent to the Graveyard at a point in time where it can't legally activate, it will also miss its activation timing.

The difference, though, is that Sangan sees you declining to activate it and mentions "you're not allowed to decline, you have to activate me."

At that point, you explain to Sangan: "Rules of the game more powerful than your mandatory rule force me to not activate you."

Sangan then says: "Then to resolve this little rule conflict, I'll wait to activate at the first moment where the rules keeping you from activating me wear off."

And Sangan waits and activates at the first legal moment.





The reason you can't activate Heart in response to a Chain Link 2 or higher Normal Monster draw is now clear.
1) You can't activate something while the Chain is still resolving
2) Heart doesn't talk to you and say "fine, I'll wait for the next legal moment to give you another chance." If it were mandatory, it would.

man that much have taken an hour to write... that or your just a real fast typist.

@Atem cool story bro!

j/k

i think we can simply say the last thing to happen must be You drawing a Normal Monster card to trigger Heart(s) since you need to show the last card you draw to use it, and apparently you can't do that in the middle of the chain. I'm using this card on TF5 and i was wondering why it doesnt trigger sometimes when i have multiple copies of it on the field, so thanks for teh explanations on this.

Thank you everyone. I now know the the full potential of an Ojama Exodia Deck. XD! I'm going to build it now.

An OjaOTK that makes you smile.

Problem resolved. No reason for this thread to be open.