Ryko FD vs Forbidden chalice

me: set ryko
opp: attack ryko in face down

i activated eff ryko, my opp chain with forbidden chalice

can he do it?

The Damage Step is broken down into Sub-Steps.

During the first few sub steps your opp and you have the chance to use cards like Forbidden Chalice. Spell speed 3 cards (counter traps), certain special cards, and spell speed 2 cards that alter attack/defense. Chalice is spell speed 2 and alters attack. So it can be used in the DS. Ryko Flips during Sub Step 1 BUT does not get its effect until SS6 (resolves effects). Since Chalice will be in either SS 1,2 or 3, you can negate Ryko with Chalice. At sub-step 6 when it tries to activate, the lingering effect of Chalice will negate it. During Sub-Step 7 Ryko will be sent to the grave as normal.

In short, you CAN Chalice Ryko during the Damage Step, as long as it is before Damage Calc. (Sub Step 4).

me: set ryko
opp: attack ryko in face down

i activated eff ryko, my opp chain with forbidden chalice

can he do it?

In your case no. Since you CANNOT use Chalice during Sub Step 6. It would have had to be used during Sub Step 1-3. You cannot chain Chalice to Ryko in SS6.

depend on which step (if substep 1,2,3, he can, if not he can't) use Chalice

kyubey wrote:me: set ryko
opp: attack ryko in face down

i activated eff ryko, my opp chain with forbidden chalice

can he do it?

When Ryko is flipped by battle before damage calculation, it cannot immediately active Flip Effect. Flip Effect can only active after damage calculation. Chalice can be actived before damage calculation and negate Ryko effect, before it can be actived.

so,
1. when ryko flip--> chalice-ed = ryko negated
2. ryko eff activate--> chalice-ed = ryko not negated

?

You understand it wrong. When Ryko is flipped, if you want to negate it with Chalice, you must do it now. If you let Ryko's eff activated, you have no chance to activate Chalice because it pass the timing for Chalice to be activated.

You understand it wrong. When Ryko is flipped, if you want to negate it with Chalice, you must do it now. If you let Ryko's eff activated, you have no chance to activate Chalice because it pass the timing for Chalice to be activated.

thats what i asked in my last post

Before Damage Calculation at the very end of sub-step 3 you are allowed multiple chains with spell speed 2 attack/defense altering cards. This is because Sub-Step 3 (before Damage Calc) is the last possible step to use cards like Forbidden Chalice in the Damage Step. If you let Ryko use its effect (SS6) it is already too late and you cannot use Chalice. Its activation window has passed.

So basically:

1. Trying to negate Ryko before its effect activates in the Damage Step with Chalice, BUT before Damage Calc. (ss 1 - 3)

FINE

2. Trying to negate Ryko's eff during its resoloution in Sub Step 6 with Chalice

Not allowed.

kyubey wrote:

You understand it wrong. When Ryko is flipped, if you want to negate it with Chalice, you must do it now. If you let Ryko's eff activated, you have no chance to activate Chalice because it pass the timing for Chalice to be activated.

thats what i asked in my last post

You must immediatelly active Chalice when Ryko is flipped, before its effect active.

And whoever controlling ryko SHOULD've ask if opp have response or not

He cann't just simply milling right away after it flipped

you have the rights to complain if ryko controller doesn't ask for response

Explaining Sub-Steps of Damage step?

Worst thing evaa

Badass_Bunny wrote:Explaining Sub-Steps of Damage step?

Worst thing evaa

This.

Actually helping someone > Being sarcastic.

I understand it is complicated and may confuse them, but still. Only really good way to explain it. Silly Key and BB, always trying to act superior.

vantagesp wrote:Actually helping someone > Being sarcastic.

I understand it is complicated and may confuse them, but still. Only really good way to explain it. Silly Key and BB, always trying to act superior.

We don't act superior, we are....

i read about the 7 substeps but nobody i met ingame says on which substep they are unless it involves a specific card effect




or did you find someone who actually announces each substep?


most people declare target right after flipping ryko, your answer could make some of them to say 'its too late i already activated ryko' by ingoring their opponent priority

raidou wrote:i read about the 7 substeps but nobody i met ingame says on which substep they are unless it involves a specific card effect




or did you find someone who actually announces each substep?


most people declare target right after flipping ryko, your answer could make some of them to say 'its too late i already activated ryko' by ingoring their opponent priority

Just like no one calls Prio on draw phrase, but we encounter problems like this a lot. (MST vs Trap Dustshoot)

i noticed


if i call prio for anything other than ignition effects they tell me thats not how prio works or they think non turn players never have prio

Badass_Bunny wrote:Explaining Sub-Steps of Damage step?

Worst thing evaa

Ummm... The explanation was actually pretty cool and I learned something new by reading this thread =/

I didn't know about substeps before, so it's nice to learn something new ._.

Priority mostly is for Ignition Effect, few is for Spell Speed 1 Spell Card. So if you do anything that not Spell Speed 1, that's not priority at all.

BlackwingRa wrote:Priority mostly is for Ignition Effect, few is for Spell Speed 1 Spell Card. So if you do anything that not Spell Speed 1, that's not priority at all.

Agreed. One must also remember that Summons/sets have no spell speed.

Priority is wide term in YGO, it is important to know when you have it and how to use it. It is impossible to explain it in 1 line of text. http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t660-ruling-101-priority

For full understanding it would be best to read that.

Badass_Bunny wrote:Priority is wide term in YGO, it is important to know when you have it and how to use it. It is impossible to explain it in 1 line of text. http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t660-ruling-101-priority

For full understanding it would be best to read that.

Yeah especially in terms of Veiler vs Lightsworn... can be a headache for new players xd.

Yeah, Key's link is full of useful informations. But the main problem is .... no one ever care to read it. =.=

vantagesp wrote:Actually helping someone > Being sarcastic.

Not being sarcastic, the damage step has a lot of different charts which explains it, each individual one has different sub-steps. If you're teaching using sub-steps, you're only confusing people.

And people, quit calling priority.

Key wrote:

vantagesp wrote:Actually helping someone > Being sarcastic.

Not being sarcastic, the damage step has a lot of different charts which explains it, each individual one has different sub-steps. If you're teaching using sub-steps, you're only confusing people.

And people, quit calling priority.

That is your opinion. And opinion is not fact.

vantagesp wrote:
That is your opinion. And opinion is not fact.

They have a name for a reason, using the names to teach would be more efficient than the sub-step dilemma

Plus sub-steps aren't official

I bet you and BB get off on this type of stuff. I was helping a member and then you guys come in and try and derail me (like always).

vantagesp wrote:I bet you and BB get off on this type of stuff. I was helping a member and then you guys come in and try and derail me (like always).

Pull yourself together, I'm not going to stand around and let people use the wrong terms.

-Call Priority
-Chain to summon
-Chain to attack
-Uses sub-step numbers
-Says something targets the deck/hand

If we could change a person a day, that's 1 less person we have to worry about.

Key wrote:

vantagesp wrote:I bet you and BB get off on this type of stuff. I was helping a member and then you guys come in and try and derail me (like always).

Pull yourself together, I'm not going to stand around and let people use the wrong terms.

-Call Priority
-Chain to summon
-Chain to attack
-Uses sub-step numbers
-Says something targets the deck/hand

If we could change a person a day, that's 1 less person we have to worry about.

You could be nice about things and not be a collosal d-bag about it. No need for petty sarcasm and such.

Sarcasm wrote:harsh or bitter derision or irony.

All I did was second what Bunnie had said, anything harsh about that?