new xyz rulings for the tcg

**enmanuel7** 2011-08-04, 13:37

hello ,i found this on pojo and i dont know if it is true,it says that on the tcg cards like reborn tengu and sangan will get they effects when detached from a xyz monster

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=978966

**Mr. Striker** 2011-08-04, 13:41

Yea, I already know this from YCM. Tour Guide is now broke.

**TyagoHexagon** 2011-08-04, 15:53

The problem with Reborn Tengu and Xyz is that its effect must activate either when it is used as a Xyz Material or when it is detached, because they must consider Xyz Materials s being on the field or not (and not somewhere between). If they are considered to be on the field, then when they are detatched, Tengu's effect should activate (it is not longer on the field). If they were not considered, Tengu's effect should activate when it were used as an Xyz Material (because it leaves the field to be used as a Material).
This resolution is really the most logic. Xyz Materials are on the field, so Dandylion's effect does not activate when it is used as a Material, but it is activate when it is removed, so does Tengu's, Sangan's, GK Recruiter's or any other monster's effect that activates when it leaves the field.
Concluding, a Xyz Material is like a Union Monster. It doesn't leave the field, it just moves to another place.
Just curious: in OCG how does it work? Tengu doesn't work either way? That's just stupid, to say the least.

**Rainbow Haruka** 2011-08-04, 16:10

Personally I never trust any news that use Facebook as its main source.
But thats just me.

**Sheodon** 2011-08-04, 16:17

TyagoHexagon wrote:The problem with Reborn Tengu and Xyz is that its effect must activate either when it is used as a Xyz Material or when it is detached, because they must consider Xyz Materials s being on the field or not (and not somewhere between). If they are considered to be on the field, then when they are detatched, Tengu's effect should activate (it is not longer on the field). If they were not considered, Tengu's effect should activate when it were used as an Xyz Material (because it leaves the field to be used as a Material).
This resolution is really the most logic. Xyz Materials are on the field, so Dandylion's effect does not activate when it is used as a Material, but it is activate when it is removed, so does Tengu's, Sangan's, GK Recruiter's or any other monster's effect that activates when it leaves the field.
Concluding, a Xyz Material is like a Union Monster. It doesn't leave the field, it just moves to another place.
Just curious: in OCG how does it work? Tengu doesn't work either way? That's just stupid, to say the least.

In OCG, it's different. Exceed Materials are not considered as leaving the field, so they are like that they are not on the field anymore after the overlaying. It can be a disadvantage (like Sangan won't get its effect), but an advantage too (Plaguespreader is sent to the Graveyard even if it was Summoned by its effect and was used as an Exceed Material). The interesting is that they are neither considered as monsters (so when they sent to the Graveyard by detaching while Dimensional Fissure is face-up on the field, they still sent to the Graveyard).

The only monster which triggers its effect is Dandylion, since it doesn't matter if it was sent to the Graveyard from the field or not.

**enmanuel7** 2011-08-04, 16:28

the proof on the link i posted its a screen of an conversation between kevin and some friends on facebook its too early to says that this its official

**3E-hero neos** 2011-08-04, 16:36

Yay, now this stuff lets you still abuse stuff like Sangan etc and gain effects. Close to Synchro's but different summon method.
But yea, unconfirmed is unconfirmed.

**The DetonatorCOPY** 2011-08-04, 16:38

Be aware reborn tengu is a tcg exclusive, the ocg do not have this card.

**CaiusTSR** 2011-08-04, 23:11

Well their material do anyway.

Kevin Tewart: Do not use OCG rules as a reference.
Kevin Tewart: As I've stated before in this group, Xyz Materials are on the field. Period. End of story.
Kevin Tewart: Yes, Tengu leaves the field when he's detached. As I said before.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Summary:
1) Xyz Materials are considered to be on the Field.
2) When Xyz Materials are detached, they are sent from the Field to the Graveyard

.
Directly from V's video.
You can check it out here.

What do you guys think? What does it mean for the TCG and the future of Tengu/Sangan/Tour Guide/Goblin Zombie etc.?

**Adept VantageSP** 2011-08-04, 23:20

Kevin just broke the game. *slow Clap* jk
Just more reason why zombie's, TGftU, and Tengu will be really good next format. Damn.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-04, 23:54

Welp, we're screwed. The mere fact that this COMPLETELY confuses people and separates us from our OCG Brothers is a flat-out fail. =/

**kangtuji** 2011-08-05, 00:09

3 words :

WTF

**Roxzen** 2011-08-05, 00:13

Johnny Raptor wrote:Welp, we're screwed. The mere fact that this COMPLETELY confuses people and separates us from our OCG Brothers is a flat-out fail. =/

Oh, you guys finally broke off from us? Congrats. We're growing tired of you lot anyway. Twisted Evil

Oh I know, Goddess should make a D-Net, exclusive for OCGers because TCG are now playing a different game! Very Happy

j/k

I'd like to see how this spiral out of order. One thing for sure, playing in D-Net is going to be a royal pain when Xyz comes out.

**CaiusTSR** 2011-08-05, 00:31

I'm not saying this because I hate Tengu (I do) I'm not saying this because he has to go (He's fine now, but with this new ruling he has to go) I'm saying this because when shit hits the fan nobody is going to be having a really very good day; Tengu, HAS to go!

Why must America always be different? Why change what already works well in my opinion? These guys in the states are doing it wrong. :I

**Adept VantageSP** 2011-08-05, 00:33

This will surely mess up any Yugioh video games, unless they fix the rules to play by TCG rules.

Guest 2011-08-05, 00:34

CaiusTSR wrote:I'm not saying this because I hate Tengu (I do) I'm not saying this because he has to go (He's fine now, but with this new ruling he has to go) I'm saying this because when shit hits the fan nobody is going to be having a really very good day; Tengu, HAS to go!

Why must America always be different? Why change what already works well in my opinion? These guys in the states are doing it wrong. :I

Metrics, Democratic Republic, Anime, Children's Card Games...

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-05, 00:57

Next format's gonna have some insanity with Sangan and Leviair or Leviathan Dragon. =/

**KingKaiserSW** 2011-08-05, 01:02

Johnny Raptor wrote:Next format's gonna have some insanity with Sangan and Leviair or Leviathan Dragon. =/

More reasons why Sangan should join his cousin in the ban list.

**Sexy Candy Panda** 2011-08-05, 01:09

F*CK IT, IM BUYING A SET OF TENGU'S!!!

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-05, 01:13

I was already planning on getting Tengu, but the sheer fact some idiot at my locals will price it at above 15$ is keeping me away from it.

**CaiusTSR** 2011-08-05, 01:30

KingKaiserSW wrote:
Johnny Raptor wrote:Next format's gonna have some insanity with Sangan and Leviair or Leviathan Dragon. =/

More reasons why Sangan should join his cousin in the ban list.

Explain how?

I mean getting Sangan's effect is no different from Synchro summoning except it's delayed because you have to activate the Xyz effect to get Sangan so essentially he stays the same floater he always was and will be.

This ruling however does break GK Recruiter a little bit because you get to searches for free essential and with stuff like Empty Space and No. 17 running around we don't need this ruling.

**KingKaiserSW** 2011-08-05, 01:52

CaiusTSR wrote:
KingKaiserSW wrote:
Johnny Raptor wrote:Next format's gonna have some insanity with Sangan and Leviair or Leviathan Dragon. =/

More reasons why Sangan should join his cousin in the ban list.
Explain how?

I mean getting Sangan's effect is no different from Synchro summoning except it's delayed because you have to activate the Xyz effect to get Sangan so essentially he stays the same floater he always was and will be.

This ruling however does break GK Recruiter a little bit because you get to searches for free essential and with stuff like Empty Space and No. 17 running around we don't need this ruling.

Summon Tour Guide, special summon Sangan, overlay for Leviair, detach to special summon a banished monster AND search a card from your deck?

**CaiusTSR** 2011-08-05, 02:00

KingKaiserSW wrote:
Summon Tour Guide, special summon Sangan, overlay for Leviair, detach to special summon a banished monster AND search a card from your deck?

Yea, but that's 1 combo though. Leviair is semi-broken on it's own Sangan makes it more so. But to many decks rely on Sangan to get key cards to pull of combos for them to just ban it.

Then again Konami hates staples so any excuse to ban Sangan I'm sure they'll take it. But by that logic they'll have to ban Dandy too.

**intch95** 2011-08-05, 07:16

*I Paraphrased as far as information gathered from Konami R&D Department/ Kevin Tewart.*

The monsters used for an XYZ summon, the materials, are considered to be on the field and have not left it until they are detached, removed, or the XYZ monster is removed from the field.

Specific examples to which this is significant to:

Reborn Tenghu: The card will get its effect once it is no longer an XYZ material, regardless of how it is removed from the XYZ monster it is attached to because it still technically left the field.

Other Floaters: (ie. Sangan, Golbin Zombie) Will get their effects if they are sent to the graveyard when they are removed from the XYZ monster they are attached to. However if cards like Marco Cosmos or Dimensional Fissure Exist on the field then those graveyard floaters such as the ones above excluding Reborn Tenghu will NOT get their effects as they are not sent from the field to the graveyard.

This was made official in the past couple of days. References being used are the temporary FB judge page being used as the Konami Judge Forum is down.

I'll add more as we get more information and add further discussions but again make sure that when you use Tenghu's effect you only search when he is detached/removed as a material, NOT when the initial mechanic of XYZ summoning occurs. And when you use other floaters like graveyard searches excluding "by battle" monsters you search once and only if they hit the graveyard.

IMPORTANT: We are NO LONGER going to use the OCG rulings on game mechanics as far as XYZ summons due to the constant disputes so please duly note that you should only reference TCG information.

Comment below if you are interested in updates on this as well as rants/articles by myself. Also post your thoughts on these facts. Do NOT use this thread to vent your hatred towards how the game is and what is happening or any individuals and/or Konami Digital Entertainment.

This is just one small fraction of all the discussed information and confirmed information.: https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img41/7548/tengux.png

**Goddess nX** 2011-08-05, 07:27

Ugh. You TCG players are lucky IMO >_>

**BERKAY** 2011-08-05, 07:43

It's amazing. I would like to use Xyz at full Extra Deck now. We overload Tengu. I think some of us would attempt to suicide if Tengu gets banned. Very Happy

:D

**HaouJudai** 2011-08-05, 13:25

According to Kevin Xyz materials are considered to be on the field - so when you detach them - they are leaving the field - Sangan, Zero and Tengu will activate

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-05, 13:39

CaiusTSR wrote:
KingKaiserSW wrote:
Summon Tour Guide, special summon Sangan, overlay for Leviair, detach to special summon a banished monster AND search a card from your deck?
Yea, but that's 1 combo though. Leviair is semi-broken on it's own Sangan makes it more so. But to many decks rely on Sangan to get key cards to pull of combos for them to just ban it.

Then again Konami hates staples so any excuse to ban Sangan I'm sure they'll take it. But by that logic they'll have to ban Dandy too.

ACTUALLY...

Dark Worlds easily break that into a +3 now.

Tour Guide -> Sangan -> Overlay into Leviair -> Detach to bring back a Banished Broww -> Search a Raven/Broww/Tour Guide -> Bounce Broww for Grapha.

Total Advantage: +3

Don't even get me started about what happens if said Dark World Player was conservative enough to keep a Dark World Dealings in hand. =|

That's just Dark Worlds though, I can imagine other decks finding a way to take serious advantage of this ruling mishap.

**Badass_Bunny** 2011-08-05, 13:43

Tengu banned...lol

Anyway I believe that they are still reviewing this, cause it creates too much of a gap between OCG and TCG, the game could then require two different banlists cause Meta would end up being quite different

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-05, 13:44

They could do this if the OCG gets it too, but then again... we've yet to see a sign of their Ignition Effect ruling coming our way.

I swear, Kevin prefers the TCG over everything else. Neutral

**maskedhero303** 2011-08-05, 14:12

I guess it was expected that xyz would get broken in some kind of way now. Same thing happened with synchros. I guess that reborn will probably get semi'd or even banned if any overpowered rank 4 exceeds that require 2 materials come out.

**CaiusTSR** 2011-08-05, 15:07

So does Tengu leave the field when it's used as an Xyz material to summon the Xyz and then when it's detached?

**Badass_Bunny** 2011-08-05, 15:24

When Detached...

Well, once Xyz's hit DN I'm moving from being Tengu-Synchro player to Chaos Synchro player, just cause Tour Guide + Sangan is too much epicness to miss out on

**KingKaiserSW** 2011-08-05, 15:52

I just have one question, does this mean we can use tokens as Xyz materials? Cause if you can then that means Phantom Skyblaster finally has a use.

**KaousFaustXIII** 2011-08-05, 16:09

KingKaiserSW wrote:I just have one question, does this mean we can use tokens as Xyz materials? Cause if you can then that means Phantom Skyblaster finally has a use.

Tokens cannot be used as Xyz Materials

**isaac** 2011-08-05, 18:26

Skyblaster has always had uses, some pretty broken ones, too.

And being able to use tokens for Xyz would instantly make him bannable forever.

**raidou** 2011-08-09, 11:58

with this ruling the materials are treated as being on field

so now we can target it with card effects

summon brionac and bounce the materials to hand or use scrap dragon/ryko to destroy them

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-09, 15:06

raidou wrote:with this ruling the materials are treated as being on field

so now we can target it with card effects

summon brionac and bounce the materials to hand or use scrap dragon/ryko to destroy them

What? You still can't target Overlay Units for your effects.

**Supreme_King** 2011-08-09, 15:20

Indeed, only effects that activate when removed from the field would activate(Tengu/Sangan etc), but they are not affected by any effects. Consider them as being a fused monster consisting of all their removed-from-field effects.

**Yami-Malik** 2011-08-09, 16:29

Goddess nX wrote:Ugh. You TCG players are lucky IMO >_>

Rofl...nothing else!

**Roxzen** 2011-08-09, 18:02

Goddess nX wrote:Ugh. You TCG players are lucky IMO >_>

I dunno. It's rather unlucky for them to face herp derp Tengu/Gobo/Tour Guide Sangan shenanigans instead of playing the real Yugioh, or the fact that BTH, Compuls and Veiler actually do their job for us.

I think I'll stick with OCG, tyvm.

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-09, 18:51

Roxzen wrote:
Goddess nX wrote:Ugh. You TCG players are lucky IMO >_>
I dunno. It's rather unlucky for them to face herp derp Tengu/Gobo/Tour Guide Sangan shenanigans instead of playing the real Yugioh, or the fact that BTH, Compuls and Veiler actually do their job for us.

I think I'll stick with OCG, tyvm.

This, all day, erryday.

Any of you OCG'ers looking to be a transfer student here in America that wanna switch places with me? xD

**kangtuji** 2011-08-09, 21:29

What happen if an XYZ got solemn warning / black horn of heaven

With tengu / sangan as material?

**Johnny Raptor** 2011-08-09, 23:21

The Overlay Units hit the graveyard, and they gain their effects.

**raidou** 2011-08-10, 18:48

i saw the facebook screenshot somebody posted https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img41/7548/tengux.png

and it says Xyz are treated as being on the field

As I ve stated before in this group XYZ materials are on the field.Period.End of story

<<<< quoted from the screenshot

so there is no reason to think it cant be targeted by card effects like scrap dragon or ryko

**mido9** 2011-08-10, 19:15

Im pretty sure by that he means that if it is sent from the field to graveyard it's like it was sent there from the field,so tengu activates his eff and sangan adds a monster.

If i were to destroy No. 39 utopia with a ryko then utopia and the xyz materials would be sent to the grave and their eff(s) activate.

If i use falling down on an enemy monster and then overlay the only archfiend i have then it is destroyed because overlayed is not considered on the field.Think of it as being in an overlay zone.

As for brio if i use brionac on an enemy revise dragon then it's xyz material(s) will be sent to the graveyard and sangan's eff will activate and revise itself will go to the EXdeck

At least,that's how i get it...

And look two posts under it and it says tengu leaves the field when detached so he activates.

**raidou** 2011-08-12, 23:16

dont you think he made this rule and the fact TCG doesnt have the new ruling on igntion effects yet ,to make the TCG completly different than OCG ?

i mean because of this OCG and TCG may end up with very different ban lists!

and about the XYZ materials ruling did he say anything about the card names ?

**MultiJazzBeat** 2011-08-13, 00:19

Since the TCG and OCG are becoming different...
I really feel sooo sorry for the people going to worlds this year

**Pot of Profanity** 2011-08-13, 06:42

raidou wrote:dont you think he made this rule and the fact TCG doesnt have the new ruling on igntion effects yet ,to make the TCG completly different than OCG ?

A "yet" would imply that Konami has any plans on releasing the Ignition ruling any time soon to the TCG.
Which they apparently don't.

Technically speaking, this change of the Xyz Materials does open up some neat combos. I personally like this ruling, it gives Xyz's a much needed boost - they were quite lackluster otherwise - while also making the game a tad more logical than this whole "On the field, but not quite on the field but in some other dimension kinda thing".

**Ultimate lol** 2011-08-14, 17:33

Ok, this is gonna be a laugh. I just came back from the worlds which had special Xyz rulings...

Tengu did not get his effect on detach... and not on overlay...
Same for things like Sangan.

Now stuff really don't make scence anymore.
Take in mind that these rulings where only made for the worlds and do not apply in current TCG. It could be a sign though.

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