Jinzo Rulings

Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated.

I have a lot of duels where various questions like this come up and rather than debate about it in duel it's just easier to ask her for a definitive answer.

So my question is.. Jinzo negates all face-up Trap Cards.. then what happens with Call of the Haunted and similar cards? Can they be used to special summon him or would once summon the effect be negated and Jinzo have to be sent back to grave?

I'm pretty sure he can be successfully summoned and remain on the field, but confirmation would be great.

He would be special summoned (I think). CoTH's effects that would destroy one card if the other was destroyed would be negated, though, so if CoTH was MST'd, you'd still have Jinzo

When Jinzo hits the field, the summoning part of Call of the Haunted is now resolved, and Jinzo cannot negate a resolved effect. If Call of the Haunted is removed from the field, Jinzo is now negating it so its effect does not resolve to destroy Jinzo with it. If you Call of the Haunted something else, say... Chaos Sorcerer, and you summon Jinzo, it is negating Call of the Haunted now. As a result, if Chaos Sorcerer is destroyed, the trigger to destroy call of the Haunted is now negated and it stays. However its summoning effect is already resolved and Chaos Sorcerer isnt sent to the graveyard from Jinzo.

I hope this didnt confuse you more xD.

When call of the haunted target jinzo in the graveyard, jinzo is not yet negating anything (since it is not yet on the field and its effect does not apply). So call of the haunted will successfully special summon jinzo.

Then the fun part begins. Jinzo, once summoned, will negate call of the haunted. What happens here is that call of the haunted loses the link it has with jinzo immediatly. When Call of the haunted leaves the field, it was attached to "no-one", so brings "no-one" down with it.


CORRECTION: Even if negated, call of the Haunted doesn't stop targeting Jinzo. So, if Jinzo is negated by Effect Veiler, Call of the Haunted's effect is re-applied and will destroy Jinzo if Call of the Haunted gets destroyed. However, if Book of Moon flips Jinzo facedown, then Call of the Haunted will stop targeting Jinzo, and won't destroy it if Call of the Haunted is destroyed.

Well then I have a question for you Det. I negate Jinzo with... Effect Veiler or something, and destroy CotH in that situation. Does it bring down Jinzo with it?

ChaoXide wrote:

Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated.

I have a lot of duels where various questions like this come up and rather than debate about it in duel it's just easier to ask her for a definitive answer.

So my question is.. Jinzo negates all face-up Trap Cards.. then what happens with Call of the Haunted and similar cards? Can they be used to special summon him or would once summon the effect be negated and Jinzo have to be sent back to grave?

I'm pretty sure he can be successfully summoned and remain on the field, but confirmation would be great.

You can bring back Jinzo with Call of the Haunted. Call of the Haunted will then just be left on the field as a dead card. Even if Jinzo leaves the field Call of the Haunted will stay on the field. If Call leaves the field Jinzo will still stay on the field because Call was still negated.

Make sense?

I was beat to the answer.

TheVoid wrote:Well then I have a question for you Det. I negate Jinzo with... Effect Veiler or something, and destroy CotH in that situation. Does it bring down Jinzo with it?

No, once negated, Call of the Haunted is no longer attached to anyone. It completely forgets who it was attached to, negating jinzo wont make it "remember", the same as when you destroy it, and jinzo's effect is no longer negating it. Call of the haunted does not remember that it was linked to jinzo. It has completely forgotten.

EDIT: You can apply this same concept from Call of the Haunted vs Book of Moon. By flipping down the monster summoned by call of the haunted, the connection is has with that monster is severed. Flipping the monster back up does not make call of the haunted reconnect with the monster. Call will continue to remain on the field as a dead card.



CORRECTION: Even if negated, call of the Haunted doesn't stop targeting Jinzo. So, if Jinzo is negated by Effect Veiler, Call of the Haunted's effect is re-applied and will destroy Jinzo if Call of the Haunted gets destroyed. However, if Book of Moon flips Jinzo facedown, then Call of the Haunted will stop targeting Jinzo, and won't destroy it if Call of the Haunted is destroyed.

o.O Just when I think i know everything... Det makes me feel like a scrub. THANKS DET -.-

Lol no problem, ill mark this as solved unless the topic opener has anything else to clarify. Will be locked in 2 days.

Alright a friend asked me this.

While we're on the topic of Jinzo, say -

Someone summons Jinzo any which way and we activate a trap that negates the summon like Trap Hole, Bottomless Trap Hole, Solemn Warning or Solemn Judgement. Is Jinzo's summon negated or does his effect prevent us from activating traps?

Here's what I told him, but I could be wrong so I wanted to confirm whether it's right or not:

Trap Hole destroys a monster once it's been summoned. So Jinzo would effectively be on the field first and therefore Trap Hole wouldn't work. Same with Bottomless Trap Hole.

Solemn Warning says it actually 'negates' the summon, therefore it should work because Jinzo wouldn't actually be considered summoned on the field yet. I believe it's the same with Solemn Judgment.

Yes that is correct. Trap hole doesn't negate summons. Therefore as you said it hits the field first. Solemn does work.

The Detonator wrote:

TheVoid wrote:Well then I have a question for you Det. I negate Jinzo with... Effect Veiler or something, and destroy CotH in that situation. Does it bring down Jinzo with it?

No, once negated, Call of the Haunted is no longer attached to anyone. It completely forgets who it was attached to, negating jinzo wont make it "remember", the same as when you destroy it, and jinzo's effect is no longer negating it. Call of the haunted does not remember that it was linked to jinzo. It has completely forgotten.

EDIT: You can apply this same concept from Call of the Haunted vs Book of Moon. By flipping down the monster summoned by call of the haunted, the connection is has with that monster is severed. Flipping the monster back up does not make call of the haunted reconnect with the monster. Call will continue to remain on the field as a dead card.

HOLD IT !!!

What you're saying is wrong.
A card does not loses its target if its negated.
For example: If you target Spirit Reaper with Enemy Controller while The Fabled Unicore is applying its effect, after everything resolves (Enemy Controller negated), Spirit Reaper will still be destroyed.

Just because Call of the Haunted is negated, targeting is not an effect thus will not lose its target. Book of Moon is quite different, when the target of Book of Moon flips the monster face-down, Call of the Haunted loses the bond between the monster because Call of the Haunted sees that its targeted monster is no longer face-up on the field.

And finally, cards don't just "forget" for no reason ..., just because an effect is negated, doesn't mean it forget.

The answer is: Jinzo is negated, Call of the Haunted is removed from the field thus will destroy Jinzo

What Key says is correct. Here's the ruling for that:

Call of the Haunted's rulings wrote:
After "Call of the Haunted" Special Summons a monster, if "Call of the Haunted" is negated by an effect like "Royal Decree" or "Trap Stun", then the Special Summoned monster remains on the field and is not destroyed. "Call of the Haunted" also remains on the field, even though its effect is negated. If the effect of "Royal Decree" or "Trap Stun" is no longer applied, then the effect of "Call of the Haunted" is re-applied, so the Special Summoned monster would be destroyed if "Call of the Haunted" is removed from the field.[17]

So what you're saying is Call of the Haunted cannot be used to SS Jinzo.

What if there is another monster out on the field with CotH equipped to him and then Jinzo is summoned? Would that monster effectively be destroyed or would it and CotH remain on the field despite CotH being negated by Jinzo?

You misunderstood it all...

ChaoXide wrote:So what you're saying is Call of the Haunted cannot be used to SS Jinzo.

Nobody said that. You can use Call of the Haunted to Special Summon Jinzo from the Graveyard, there is no problem with that.

ChaoXide wrote:What if there is another monster out on the field with CotH equipped to him and then Jinzo is summoned? Would that monster effectively be destroyed or would it and CotH remain on the field despite CotH being negated by Jinzo?

That monster equipped with Call of the Haunted wouldn't be destroyed just because Jinzo is summoned. In fact, while Jinzo is on the field and it's effect negates Call of the Haunted, the monster equipped with Call of the Haunted wouldn't be destroyed with Call of the Haunted's effect even if Call of the Haunted is Destroyed.

TamA is right, in simpler terms thing of it like this: Call summons Jinzo, forming a link and effect along that link between them, but Jinzo's eff negates the effect along that link, but doesn't Destroy the link, meaning once Jinzo's effect is gone, the link and the effect along it remains, and is applied as normal.

TamA wrote:You misunderstood it all...

ChaoXide wrote:So what you're saying is Call of the Haunted cannot be used to SS Jinzo.

Nobody said that. You can use Call of the Haunted to Special Summon Jinzo from the Graveyard, there is no problem with that.

I got confused by Key's final sentence in his post which you agreed to:

The answer is: Jinzo is negated, Call of the Haunted is removed from the field thus will destroy Jinzo

:/

ChaoXide wrote:You need to go back and read Key's post (which you agreed to).

The answer is: Jinzo is negated, Call of the Haunted is removed from the field thus will destroy Jinzo

That is what Key said and you agreed.

That is when Jinzo is brought back with Call of the Haunted and later Effect Veiler (or a similar card) negates Jinzo. In that case Jinzo is destroyed if Call of the Haunted is destroyed.

Yeah I realized after I posted and went back and edited.

So the answer is Jinzo can be ss with CotH and then he negates it's effect thus he cannot be destroyed if CotH is destroyed, nor can CotH be destroyed if Jinzo is destroyed? However if Jinzo's effect is later negated, then you can still destroy CotH to destroy Jinzo?

ChaoXide wrote:Jinzo can be ss with CotH and then he negates it's effect thus he cannot be destroyed if CotH is destroyed?

Yes, Jinzo can be Special Summoned with Call of the Haunted. Call of the Haunted will be negated, so when Call of the Haunted is destroyed, Jinzo won't be destroyed.

ChaoXide wrote:can CotH be destroyed if Jinzo is destroyed?

If Jinzo was special summoned with Call of the Haunted and later Jinzo is destroyed, Call of the Haunted will be destroyed.

Previously official Judge List rulings for Jinzo that still holds true wrote:If "Jinzo" is Special Summoned with "Call of the Haunted" and then "Jinzo" is destroyed and removed from the field, "Call of the Haunted" is itself also destroyed and removed from the field.[9]

ChaoXide wrote:if Jinzo's effect is later negated, then you can still destroy CotH to destroy Jinzo?

Yes, if Jinzo is brought back with Call of the Haunted and later Effect Veiler (or a similar card) negates Jinzo, Jinzo will be destroyed when Call of the Haunted is destroyed.