Toon Cannon Soldier vs effect negation

I was watching a duel of someone using that lame Toon Cannon FTK/OTK deck vs a Glad deck and saw something that really perplexed me:

Basically the player using the FTK/OTK deck summoned Toon Cannon then SS Pulsar dragon and activated Toon's effect to tribute Pulsar, The glad player countered with Chariot but the one using the FTK/OTK still tributed Pulsar even though Chariot negates the activation of the effect with his pretense that it's a cost and costs need to be paid whether it the activation of the effect or the effect itself was negated.

To summarize: Does Toon Cannon Soldier still tributes a monster if the activation of it's effect was negated? Also is the tribute a cost or part of the effect?

Just wanted to make sure since lots of people think they're being "awesome" by using this FTK/OTK and want to know my options when i get to face this deck.

The F/OTK user is correct in his statement. Costs are paid before activation, so they stay paid whether or not the activation is negated. And then Pulsar's eff goes off and etc.

Yep, it is a cost. And do not worry; Konami will fix this. I am not so much reassuring you as ordering them.

ok... that's a downer. Well guess I'll just have to make a list of users that use this deck then so i can avoid them. I really hate FTK/OTK decks. It's not funny when you don't even get to do anything in a duel -.-

and... if toon canon soldier tributing itself it would still inflicted 500

does it? since negation only affect on field, unlike effect veiler

kangtuji wrote:and... if toon canon soldier tributing itself it would still inflicted 500

does it? since negation only affect on field, unlike effect veiler

They use Chariot, you know, not Skill Drain. Face-up or not have nothing to do with it.

Well... I was thinking effect negation as the title implies

Doesn't matter, since the card resolves off field.

cards outside of the field aren't immune to negation, or why do you thing you can negate honest/tengu/abs 0...

It's incredibly circumstantial. SKILL DRAIN does not negate off field cards. And if Toon Cannon Soldier is the cost, he will resolve in the graveyard and Skill Drain only negates monsters on the field.

EpicDuelTime wrote:Doesn't matter, since the card resolves off field.

No it resolves On the field, all effects resolve where they are activated...

Badass_Bunny wrote:

EpicDuelTime wrote:Doesn't matter, since the card resolves off field.

No it resolves On the field, all effects resolve where they are activated...

TCS tributing itself is a cost and activates on the field, but by resolution, he's in the Graveyard. Same reasoning with Stardust and other cards that tribute themselves as a cost.

the monster might be in the grave, but the effect is still on the field...

that is also the reason for this one:
http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/t2754-ruling-faq-clearing-up-the-most-confusable-rulings#drainveiler

WinterKirby wrote:

Badass_Bunny wrote:

EpicDuelTime wrote:Doesn't matter, since the card resolves off field.

No it resolves On the field, all effects resolve where they are activated...

TCS tributing itself is a cost and activates on the field, but by resolution, he's in the Graveyard. Same reasoning with Stardust and other cards that tribute themselves as a cost.

Stardsut, Lonefire, Exiled Force, Rescue Rabbit and Toon cannon Soldier all activate On Field And they Resolve ther

Honest, Veiler, Battle Fader All activate in hand and resolve there

Sangan, Mystic Tomato, Gravekeepers Recrutier All activate in grave and resolve there.


It doesn't matter where the card is it always resolves where it activated

WinterKirby wrote:TCS tributing itself is a cost and activates on the field, but by resolution, he's in the Graveyard. Same reasoning with Stardust and other cards that tribute themselves as a cost.

Location of the card have nothing to do with location of the effect. Effect always resolves at same place you active it.

==========================
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Cost

There are two key concepts in the Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG concerning Costs:
1. Costs are paid before the activation of a card, not after.

2. You never get a "refund" on a cost.
==========================

So in turn, Stardust, Lonefire, TCS and the like all activate and resolve in the Graveyard.

==========================
http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/gameplay/rulings/DREVRulebook110517_v1.1x.pdf

This card will negate effects that activate or apply on the field. It will not negate an effect that activates in the Graveyard.

If the targeted monster is no longer face-up on the field when Effect Veiler's effect resolves, the targeted monster's effect(s) will not be negated.
==========================

So Stardust, Lonefire, TCS and friends will not be negated if Effect Veiler is chained to their effects. They will only be negated if Veiler is used prior to their activations.

WinterKirby wrote:
So Stardust, Lonefire, TCS and friends will not be negated if Effect Veiler is chained to their effects. They will only be negated if Veiler is used prior to their activations.

beside that veiler can't be chained to the effects since the monsters are no longer on the field after activation: exactly that it is how it works.

And now think further: Veiler only can negate effects on the field. How would it be able to negate stardust/lonefire etc if those would be activated in the grave like tengu/abs0 etc (which are not negatable by veiler)?

It is like we say, despite the monsters being out of the field the effect is still on the field an as that is negated by veiler & co.
Skill Drain is only an exception here since that is continously applied on the field. Once the monsters are gone it doesn't matter where the effect is, the monster is no longer affected by drain and so the monster is no longer negated after paying the cost.

what about if i summon tour guide oponent chains veiler and i chain E-Controler tributing Tour Guide? huh huh

then there is no longer a target for veiler to be negated, Veilers effect simply resolves without taking effect.

so sangan is still coming correct? so you might say tour resolves in the grave?

Chain Link 1: Tour Guide's eff is activated on the field.
Chain Link 2: Effect Veiler is activated.
Chain Link 3: E-Con, Tributing Tour Guide, is activated.

Link 3 resolves first. Tour Guide is tributed and sent to the Graveyard. You now control an opponent's monster.
Link 2 resolves. Veiler, which originally targeted Tour Guide, resolves, but its effect disappears, since the target is no longer valid (It is no longer a face-up monster).
Link 1 resolves. Since Tour Guide only needs to be on the field to activate its effect, where it goes after activation doesn't matter, since Veiler could no longer target it. Its effect was not negated, so a Level 3 Fiend-Type monster is still Special Summoned from the Deck.

WinterKirby wrote:Chain Link 1: Tour Guide's eff is activated on the field.
Chain Link 2: Effect Veiler is activated.
Chain Link 3: E-Con, Tributing Tour Guide, is activated.

Link 3 resolves first. Tour Guide is tributed and sent to the Graveyard. You now control an opponent's monster.
Link 2 resolves. Veiler, which originally targeted Tour Guide, resolves, but its effect disappears, since the target is no longer valid (It is no longer a face-up monster).
Link 1 resolves. Since Tour Guide only needs to be on the field to activate its effect, where it goes after activation doesn't matter, since Veiler could no longer target it. Its effect was not negated, so a Level 3 Fiend-Type monster is still Special Summoned from the Deck.

yes YES! now i get it thank you alot man!

WinterKirby wrote:

So in turn, Stardust, Lonefire, TCS and the like all activate and resolve in the Graveyard.

If you say this, you're no difference than a newbie.

Speaking of negation.... do this applies to TRAP card too ? if they leave field, are their effect active disregard being negated ?

Cold wave + Breaker / Lyla / Ryko -> Wild Tornado.

Cold Wave doesn't negate anything
Spells and Traps cannot be activated, not even their effects while Cold Wave has taken effect

^this
else...

kangtuji wrote:Speaking of negation.... do this applies to TRAP card too ? if they leave field, are their effect active disregard being negated ?

depends on the card negating the effects. If you activate Mirror Force with Decree on the field and chain mst to it, stupidly targeting mirror force rather than decree (^^) then mirror will resolve properly since it isn't on the field anymore (same thing as with monsters leaving under skill drain).
If Horus wants to negate a spell and you chain mst targeting that spell, the spell will still be negated since he doesn't care where the spell is, he simply can negate it.

You just have to look at the effects that negate:
- Target or not? If they target like veiler and an effect is chained that removes the target then those have no target anymore and they negate nothing.
- Negate just on the field or negate anywhere else? With Decree on the field trap effects will still work if they are in the grave on resolution.

dest wrote:If you activate Mirror Force with Decree on the field and chain mst to it, stupidly targeting mirror force rather than decree (^^) then mirror will resolve properly since it isn't on the field anymore (same thing as with monsters leaving under skill drain).

This is wrong, Mirror Force will still be negated since the chain link is still on the field, and Royal Decree negates traps that activates on the field.